Punkbuster-

[XyZspineZyX]

As some of you may know already, UBI is bringing punkbuster to Raven Sheild. It might be a little to late, but at least they are doing it.

We need to let Crytek know before the demo is even released, we want to see punkbuster with Far Cry. Better to let them know now instead of waiting until months after the retail has been out.

After a long thread in the Raven Sheild forums about PB, they are now adding it, so lets just get it going now with Far Cry.

"constructive replies please"

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[XyZspineZyX]

As some of you may know already, UBI is bringing punkbuster to Raven Sheild. It might be a little to late, but at least they are doing it.

We need to let Crytek know before the demo is even released, we want to see punkbuster with Far Cry. Better to let them know now instead of waiting until months after the retail has been out.

After a long thread in the Raven Sheild forums about PB, they are now adding it, so lets just get it going now with Far Cry.

"constructive replies please"

http://www.loeclan.com/sigs/consig.jpg

[XyZspineZyX]

Well, we have no idea how the cryENGINE is/will be, for all we know it could be hard for cheaters to crack. On the other hand, it could be very easy for cheaters to crack and that's when we should request for Punkbuster.

[XyZspineZyX]

That would be great if it was hard to crack, but with just about every games past history, it would take an act from God for it not to be cracked.

Most games that are designed with the intensions of people making mods, have been cracked. Id guess 100%

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[XyZspineZyX]

I don't think we should be too concerned with things like punkbuster at the moment, considering the game is not released yet. All you need to know is that cheeting is for LOSERS, who can not play.

[XyZspineZyX]

Punkbuster is a great feature to have with a game, but be warned to those who want it, Punkbuster is a massive Bandwidth hog. You should add 40-70% more bandwidth required to host a game. I am not making an arguement against it. We have the Bandwidth to host the servers, BUT it will impede the development of the community due to the fact many people can not accomodate the extra bandwidth to host personal servers.

just food for thought.

But officially, I would support any initiative towards clean gaming

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[XyZspineZyX]

punkbuster is a joke.

[XyZspineZyX]

Mate, is there anything you like?

[XyZspineZyX]

I like punkbuster, Americas Army just got punkbuster and the first day i played with it, it kicked someone that was trying to use an aimbot.

"The Deadliest Weapon In The World Is A Marine And His M-14"
"I Dont Want No Teenage Queen, I Just Want My M-14!"
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[XyZspineZyX]

its know that if you ahve export tools that the code for opening files in that tools so open that files learn the code AKA HACKING and your in the source no you can sheat your hole way so yeh PB will be a good idea cause i would hate to see any one flying or doing matrix stuff cuase they know how to cheat

keep it real for now
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[XyZspineZyX]

"keep it real... for now!" Man I love this guy! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Anyways, I think a anti-cheat app. should be shipped with all online games! Personaly I'm not a fan of the whole PB idea... It seems to work... sometimes, but also seems easy to avoyd! But the again its a loong time since i last tryed it!
I say have it ready for the release!

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[XyZspineZyX]

Yeah, thats what we need, get it going now. The raven sheild forums went crazy over the cheating, and a lot of people dont even play it anymore due to the cheats.

Id hate to see the same thing happen to far cry. We have yet to see a game thats meant to be modded, be very hard to make cheats for.

If we just make "simple" post like, "punkbuster blows" or, Lets wait until the cheats arrive, we wont get anywhere, and by then, it might have already ruined the game.

Id like to see a game Dev. take some kind of action towards cheats BEFORE they release a game. We all know that right now we depend on patches to help slow down cheats, and if we see anything like ghost recon support, the game is doomed. Lets hope this isnt the case.

http://www.loeclan.com/sigs/consig.jpg

[XyZspineZyX]

I like the idea of punkbuster and disagree with the comments that its too much of a bandwidth hog. Personaly, on a 56K, i find it ok.

The good thing about punkbuster is that it allows the dev team to work with people that have YEARS of experiance of doing what they do best, busting punks!! eheh.

In the long run you must realise that intigration with punnkbuster will allow the dev team to work harder on the game rather than fart about worrying about annoying little 13 year old cheaters and leave it to the pros that know how to handel it. (no offence cryteck but you get what im trying to say)

So i agree, my vote goes with convictLoE and punkbuster

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[XyZspineZyX]

AH_Viper wrote:
- I like the idea of punkbuster and disagree with the
- comments that its too much of a bandwidth hog.
- Personaly, on a 56K, i find it ok.

I meant for the Host bud. The server continueally queries a players system, queries PB servers for updates and also returns queries back to the any requestor. Now add this about 32 times for each player or more plus the PB server making sure all files are up to date and the server is responding. Then add in all the players searching for games and the server replies back to them. Then account for the normal bandwidth just to play the game.



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[XyZspineZyX]

AnubisGGT wrote:
- I meant for the Host bud. The server continueally
- queries a players system, queries PB servers for
- updates and also returns queries back to the any
- requestor. Now add this about 32 times for each
- player or more plus the PB server making sure all
- files are up to date and the server is responding.
- Then add in all the players searching for games and
- the server replies back to them. Then account for
- the normal bandwidth just to play the game.

Fair enough, i cant argue with that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Personlay though i realy dont nottice any difference in online play

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[XyZspineZyX]

AnubisGGT wrote:
- AH_Viper wrote:
-- I like the idea of punkbuster and disagree with the
-- comments that its too much of a bandwidth hog.
-- Personaly, on a 56K, i find it ok.
-
- I meant for the Host bud. The server continueally
- queries a players system, queries PB servers for
- updates and also returns queries back to the any
- requestor. Now add this about 32 times for each
- player or more plus the PB server making sure all
- files are up to date and the server is responding.
- Then add in all the players searching for games and
- the server replies back to them. Then account for
- the normal bandwidth just to play the game.
-
-
-
-
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- Game Testing Network</a>

so do you know how large the Ceu file is for a PB its 1 or 2 BIT that isnt even 1Byt you can fit 4 players in 1Byt that means that it would use 8Byts for 32 player that is every second so make that 8byt recieve and 8byte snet that every sec that mean that if you run a PB server for 1 hour you would have made 57600byt of trfic in hour than to get the KB file size of 1hour do 57600/8 and you get the KB and that is 7200Kb that is 7.2MB i ONE HOUR THAT IS UP AND DOWN SPEED so that would be 3.6Mb for a the server to upload and 3.6Mb to download (keep in mind that some packes can get lost and need to be resent this can can cause more trafic but it would be 0.1%extra trafic

now what do we SAY TO YOU MY FRIEND KNOW WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT BEFOR YOU GIVE COMMEBNT http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

like my SIGN SAYS



keep it real for now
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[XyZspineZyX]

So explain to me why our output usage decreases by almost a full MB when a PB was dropped? Since you , erhm, understand the server a whole lot better than I do. ANd uhm...manage over 14 servers for various games.

So if you can "Keep it real"... then I assume you have a legitimate answer

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Message Edited on 08/13/0302:50PM by AnubisGGT

[XyZspineZyX]

EY! Calm down mr. know-it-all! Its a discussion board! He didnt knew that... now he does! You had to learn it from somewhere aswell! Ok ok, you know your mathematics, but I dont know about you, but I learned to use commas at the first day of school!

Entering a discussion board with that attidute is like peace fighting with a rifle!

Whenever you like it or not... lag increases whith punkpuster! Ok, your facts are gooddy goody, but in practice its worthless!

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[XyZspineZyX]

treu when you use PB you increas lag by 5 to 8 BUT this is so smal that i cant realy see what the points
(only if you use 56K modem this can be larger more like 20 or something)

so yeh for 56K user PD sucks

btw iam angry or what iam just explaining and yeh to explain why the server speed drops by 1MB

PB uses the trafic of the server but i dont know how many players and what games are on the server and what the server speed is cause i cant say what is wrong if i dont know what kind of server your running

can you please tell me what the specs of the servers are cause i cant tell you any thing if i dont know any thing about it right now but let me explain what my server does

i run a server for the game VIETCONG now the max player count is 16 man on 1024/512 Kb connections that mean iin KB
128KB download speed and 64KB upstream the server upload speed that i monitor on my server is when its fully loaded a trafic of 45KB that means that i have 16 players running around in killing spree (killing sprees increas trafic by mostly 10KB so the normal load when nobody is moving is around th 35KB than when people go shoot each other you get a increas of 10KB now whit PB and alot of killing sprees my trafic could go up to 50/55 or something jsut cause when there is more action the programe checks more and can ask for packets a sec so this could increas trafic a normal load when every body is walking is 1 packets a sec every move that you do 1pack so if people go hoppin around and firing and moveing you get a increas of trafic that PB is checking this can afect serius trafic on servers so i what i think is best is a ingame cheat check the server is checking if there is fault in the resived pack and if something is wrong you get killed

but know that DEV members of most games know this and do this i think it wouldent be needed to get PB just make the pack controler a good one and when some one uses a cheat he will get killed
(crapy thing is that 56K users again get in troble cause the packets lose of 56K user is big and this lets the server think he is cheating and the 56K user get killed to often)

btw I NEVER ATENT TO HARM ANY ONE CAUSE THAT WOULD BE BAD FOR ME like it says "keeping it real for NOW" smokeing some pod in the garden in my home town in HOLLAND http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

keep it real for now
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keep it real for now
http://home.publishnet.nl/~pvermaas/pics/images/soldier9pics%20viewer.jpg

[XyZspineZyX]

Heh... keep it real bro'! Pod? How you smoke a pod? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
jk with you aight'! Sorry, but I got a bit upsett by what I asumed to be a shtty attitude... guess I was wrong! Liked you from the beginning.. realy did!
Anyways... I know my english aint top-notch, and when combined with your, not trying to offend you there mate, a-bit-to-fast-typing-non-dot-comma-or-separators-of-any-kind eng... I REALY have a problem understanding some of what you write! Like: "btw iam angry or what iam just explaining and yeh to explain why the server speed drops by 1MB"... sorry mate, but I'm realy falling behind here! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

No hard feelings buddy... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Keep it real... for now! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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[XyZspineZyX]

server was for 32 players (mentioned that in the first post) RTCW:ET (not only server we host)

When PB was disabled our bw usage dropped just under 1 megabit of upload. Now to get back to my original response and what i actually said--
for "hosts" the bw is increased to provide a good server with PB on. If you are to host a PB game you need more bandwidth to have alot of people.

In no way did i say that it affects a players 56k. And yes, UDP packets to not have error check or routing. They are sent blindly to the machine asking for it. UDP is a "dumb" bomb of internet communications, but for a more descriptive account of it read HERE (http://www.erg.abdn.ac.uk/users/gorry/course/inet-pages/udp.html)

Now for the ins and outs of punkbuster visit http://www.evenbalance.com There are also other games that have different checks for faulty files. So the PB load can be higher or lower depending on the types of files checked, the frequencies checked, as well at other admin commands that are customisable.

So, in essence and closing, I AM keeping it real. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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[XyZspineZyX]

cool every body is keeping it real it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif yeh sorry for my no. dot. i. wil. change. this.

do you guys agree whit me that a server eror check program that is in the engine is better than PB.

cause that would use more BW.

keep it real for now
http://home.publishnet.nl/~pvermaas/pics/images/soldier9pics%20viewer.jpg

[XyZspineZyX]

Please stop being "omnipotent". It doenst allow people to embrace your ideas and they just ignore your posts. Keeping it real is knowing how to deal with people.

Just some advice from a person who deals with people for a living.

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[XyZspineZyX]

well iam justs a guy that is 17 and does a Mutlie Media animations&games studie in holland http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif iam jsut a nerd in dark room that never sees girls(yeh right)

keep it real for now
http://home.publishnet.nl/~pvermaas/pics/images/soldier9pics%20viewer.jpg

[XyZspineZyX]

Regardless of what you do for a living, people are (unfortunatly) judged on the impression they provide.

You know alot about different aspects of design and creation. Let people learn from you instead of turning a blind eye to you. You will go furthur in life.

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[XyZspineZyX]

yeh so what do you guys think

PB for cheating tool

or

ingame eror control check

keep it real for now
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[XyZspineZyX]

Does it still solve our dilema?

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[XyZspineZyX]

Whats more of a delima? Needing a little more BW, or putting up with cheaters?

http://www.loeclan.com/sigs/consig.jpg

[XyZspineZyX]

I think this is a "bit" off track.

I like PB.. but it will slow down the growth of the community. Thats all i was ever saying.

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[XyZspineZyX]

LOL, I dont know how PB would slow the growth of a community, but I do know, it cant grow much slower than it has now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



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[XyZspineZyX]

the most of the players will join in after playing we are just the die hard gamers and than you ahve the none posting players that is like 80%of the gamers

keep it real for now
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[XyZspineZyX]

As for bandwidth usage of a PB Server, it is very minimal. The default and
most commonly used configuration of PB on the game server sends/receives a few
hundred bytes per minute on average. It works out to less than 0.01Kbps per
connected player. When a new PB update comes out, the servers push the update
to the connected clients and that will increase the bandwidth usage to 2Kbps
per user for a few minutes (PB updates are tiny compared to most game
updates). We usually update around once per week on average per game supported.


Tony Ray
President
Even Balance, Inc.

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[XyZspineZyX]

Very interesting!

So then I wonder why we clocked around 2.7mbit (what people dont understand) up then around 1.9 when we disabled the PB.

The only thing i can think of was this scenario:

When RTCW came out we ran it 32 public non-PB. About a week or two into the release, we ran it PB. With the constant transition of players going in and out of the servers new people cycled in continuously. If you have 10 new player every few minutes or so and it added 2 kb per client everytime they cycled through...especially with a new game that just came out...most likely they would need PB updates.

So now 1 megabit translates into 125KBps so if he said 2 Kb per client that relates to total of 64 thats about half of the megabit throughput.

Now since it was a new game (alot of updates needed) and many new players (many updates needed) it can increase substantially.

But that still doesnt explain for another 20KBs though. I am not saying they are wrong, but I think there is a bit more to it thatn that simple equation.

Hey convict....did you email him and that was his response?

because i might pursue this a bit deeper and if he responds ill send him emails.

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[XyZspineZyX]

Yep, emailed them.

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