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Huxley_S
01-27-2004, 05:13 PM
I've watched a few of these movies and although I've been generally impressed by the skills involved in making them, nonetheless it is clear that some of the music used to accompany or even inspire them is questionable to say the least.

Clearly this is why in major productions, one person is not left to execute every part of the process.

Watching some of these has reaffirmed some of my prejudices that technical people have no taste.

A classic example is the acclaimed "Stranger" movie which has been hailed a cinematic marvel within the constraints of the medium. However, in my opinion, to juxtapose an arial dogfight to the crooning of a Michael Jackson ballad is quite simpy ridiculous. I laughed out loud the first time I saw it. Then I simply resigned myself to the realisation that although there has been more music recorded in this world than most people could hope to digest in their lifetime, little of it makes an impact on the mainstream.

I help set up an internet radio station about 4 years ago to help address this problem... totallyradio (http://www.totallyradio.com)

On this station you will find almost any genre of music other than the likes of Michael Jackson, Kylie Minogue or Blink 182.

So much great music exists that could inspire some fantastic movie making.

Check it out... let's try to be a little more creative shall we.

Huxley_S
01-27-2004, 05:13 PM
I've watched a few of these movies and although I've been generally impressed by the skills involved in making them, nonetheless it is clear that some of the music used to accompany or even inspire them is questionable to say the least.

Clearly this is why in major productions, one person is not left to execute every part of the process.

Watching some of these has reaffirmed some of my prejudices that technical people have no taste.

A classic example is the acclaimed "Stranger" movie which has been hailed a cinematic marvel within the constraints of the medium. However, in my opinion, to juxtapose an arial dogfight to the crooning of a Michael Jackson ballad is quite simpy ridiculous. I laughed out loud the first time I saw it. Then I simply resigned myself to the realisation that although there has been more music recorded in this world than most people could hope to digest in their lifetime, little of it makes an impact on the mainstream.

I help set up an internet radio station about 4 years ago to help address this problem... totallyradio (http://www.totallyradio.com)

On this station you will find almost any genre of music other than the likes of Michael Jackson, Kylie Minogue or Blink 182.

So much great music exists that could inspire some fantastic movie making.

Check it out... let's try to be a little more creative shall we.

WB_Outlaw
01-27-2004, 09:31 PM
Huxley,
Were you born an [Expicative] or did you learn that at the same school where you learned your version of "taste"? Too bad you missed out on Tact 1001. I did notice, however, that you never missed a single lecture of Shameless Plug Of Stupid Product 2205 (that's irony in case you missed that class).

What's ridiculous is belittling someone else when you voice your opinion. If I ever post a movie here, bear in mind that if I want your opinion of it I'll beat it out of you.

This forum was made for critiquing people's work in a civil and constructive manner and helping to improve the genre, not pointing and laughing at MANY, MANY hours of labor while vaunting your self proclaimed superiority.


-Outlaw.

P.S.
Hey Viper, if you have to ban me for the above post, feel free, I won't get offended. It will be worth it to put this loser in his place.

[This message was edited by VMF513_Viper on Wed January 28 2004 at 02:53 AM.]

Master_Of_Horse
01-27-2004, 09:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I laughed out loud the first time I saw it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, different-strokes-for-different-folks I guess, the first time I saw it I was utterly mesmorized! I think MJs music was a perfect fit with the smoothness of the sound track complimenting the smoothness of the movie and 'Stranger' is still my fovorite FB vid, a true classic!

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Huxley_S
01-28-2004, 02:10 AM
Excuse the pomposity of my previous post... i didn't mean any offence by it. I really appreciate the hours/days/weeks of work that goes into making these movies and many of them have given me a lot of pleasureand I'm determined to have a go myself and you can feel free to slate me all you like.

I just detest crap music that's all.

koniygn
01-28-2004, 03:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
...
I just detest crap music that's all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Huxley,

Honestly I am a classical-music-lover, I can't say the hiphops are crap although I really hate that, because art is subjective. Similarly you can't say the music craps the movie. What you can say is "the producer cannot handle the sound effects wisely" or "the producer is lack of experience". In fact, it is quite challenging if the producer uses "crap music" to produce a harmonic movie. It is the problem of method of expression, not the problem of taste.

To be the producer (in the future, as my work is not done yet), I am always proud of my work, I guess you do the same as yours. So It is useless to argue with the "crap music" or the taste, but should criticize the way they express.

A little secret: I am producing a movie with Beethoven's Moonlight and some parts of music in Star Wars; you may think my work is a piece of crap, but subjectively I think my work is excellent. But who cares? How can a subjective object satisfy all people in the world?

Huxley_S
01-28-2004, 03:48 AM
I do agree with you.. and of course like all forms of art the merits of a piece of work are always subjective.

However, the importance of music cannot be over-stated. From Tarantino to Speilberg the use of music is integral and essential to their work.

The problem with Star Wars music for instance is that it comes with lots of "baggage" i.e. everyone knows it and has a preconceived emotional response to it.

Finding the right music is not easy and that's the point I was trying to make. All this hard work goes in to make these movies and it appears that (relatively) little thought goes in to choosing the soundtrack.

The best FB soundtrack I've heard so far is Holst's Mars, which is slightly predictable but is so good it goes with just about anything.

In some ways the use of the Michael Jackson song was a bold move which is to be applauded, but there are a million other songs out there that would have worked much better... Simon & Garfunkle's Bridge Over Troubled Water for instance.

I make no apologies that I work for a radio station and know a thing or two about music and if anyone wants any help sourcing music to go with your tracks that will do them justice then I will always be happy to offer any advice I can.

VMF513_Viper
01-28-2004, 03:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WB_Outlaw:
Huxley,
Were you born an a$$ or did you learn that at the same school where you learned your version of "taste"? Too bad you missed out on Tact 1001. I did notice, however, that you never missed a single lecture of Shameless Plug Of Stupid Product 2205 (that's irony in case you missed that class).

What's ridiculous is belittling someone else when you voice your opinion. If I ever post a movie here, bear in mind that if I want your opinion of it I'll beat it out of you.

This forum was made for critiquing people's work in a civil and constructive manner and helping to improve the genre, not pointing and laughing at MANY, MANY hours of labor while vaunting your self proclaimed superiority.


-Outlaw.

P.S.
Hey Viper, if you have to ban me for the above post, feel free, I won't get offended. It will be worth it to put this loser in his place.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Outlaw,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even you. I am not going to ban anyone for stating their opinion. Just dont let this get out of hand. Some folks get upset with someones post and lash out sometimes. For me being a Mod it is allowed here, as long as it doesnt get out of hand and turn into a personal flame war.


On the point of choosing music:

When I choose my music for any of my movies ive made (see http://www.vmf513.com, then click on combat footage) I usually set the tone for the type of footage I capture. However some of the greats here like to smooth the movies out by using classical or Michael Jackson Music. It all boils down to the tone of the footage they capture. I myself like heavy metal and rock and roll to coincide with what i am doing because I like the beat.

Not everyone will like what kind of music you put into your movies.

S! Viper

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XyZspineZyX
01-28-2004, 08:59 PM
Some time back I watched a movie, (and I sincerly apologize to the movie maker, I can't remember the title), and the soundtrack was "Dead or Alive" by Bon Jovi, a song that leaves me cold personally. None the less I watched the entire film and was duly impressed. When I got done I realized that although I still didn't like the song it was an interesting juxtaposition that made the movie different and it did seem to fit the mood. I could see why the maker chose that tune.

Huxley_S, Although I intially disagreed with you (apparent) belittling, I'm glad you clairfied your position. I tend to agree with your tastes and I'm glad you will make your expertise availalbe to the fine 'frameographers' we have. I love a good FB movie with {this is my opinion OK?} "good" music.



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fabianfred
01-31-2004, 05:40 PM
hey... Huxley, you sound like someone who is more tan ten years old...!!?
haven't you learned yet that there is no such thing as crap music, nor good music, or beautiful women, or ugly ones.......... it is all in ones own tastes

if one person thinks a piece of music is good and another thinks it is bad, the good or bad is only in their hearts, not in the music.......

everyone is entitled to an opinion....... but that is all they are, opinions... no basis in reality.....

I loved the MJ music in 'Stranger' and have been a fan of his music and dancing for years........... I'm 52 by the way.....( and a Buddhist ... can you tell??)
If you listen to yourself before you speak you will change the "this is rubbish..." statement to one which has more meaning, like..."I think this is rubbish..."
Sweeping statements are usually drivel.....

Huxley_S
02-01-2004, 04:25 AM
Dude... at the very least I think it is safe top say that all music is not created equal.

Most popular music is more to do with the cult of personality or celebrity than it is to do with the actual musical or lyrical content.

Of course I'm generalising when I say this music is crap... but it is as good a word as any to describe it.

Captain_Avatar
02-01-2004, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Finding the right music is not easy and that's the point I was trying to make. All this hard work goes in to make these movies and it appears that (relatively) little thought goes in to choosing the soundtrack.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It wouldn't be easy if you were to intellectualize the process. Music for me, if not most people, is a strong conveyor of emotion. Not only emotion but imagery too. If the author wants to include a Michael Jackson song in his video it's because it conveyed what he wanted to get across. It worked for him, but may not work for you. Too bad if you don't get it.

Now, if I made a video a strong contender for a soundtrack would be "Disco Inferno" by the Trammps (burn baby baby burn, Disco inferno...). I can see the flaming ME-109s now! Or perhaps the Prelude to Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man". Want something more classical? Howabout the theme to "The Last Starfighter" or "The Bridge at Remagen"?

With my minds eye and ear I can see the video now. No doubt some of the other creators out there who know this music can say the same thing. It's called imagination, try it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If there's any technical issu I would have is that the video and the music must agree on some level. The flow of the music must match the flow of the video. If I were to fault a movie it would be on that point.

So far my favorite movie to date would be DART's "Flying For The First Time".

Huxley_S
02-01-2004, 12:45 PM
When Quentin Tarantino starts using New Kids on The Block, Westlife, Britany Spears or Michael Jackson in his movie soundracks I'll concede that it's just me that doesn't "get it".

Until then I'll maintain that some music is just plain rubbish and that a great movie can be ruined by a badly chosen soundtrack.

P.S. Angry Young man would make a cool soundtrack... especially the mad piano intro part!

CowboyTodd41
02-04-2004, 07:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
When Quentin Tarantino starts using New Kids on The Block, Westlife, Britany Spears or Michael Jackson in his movie soundracks I'll concede that it's just me that doesn't "get it".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No offense, but that sounds like quite a Tarantino thing do.

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rick_475
02-06-2004, 12:43 PM
I would love to hear the "Battle On The Ice" by Prokofiev in a movie, followed by "Field Of The Dead" (Prokofiev again). Battle On The Ice would show the action and drama of a fight taking place in Russia in the winter. Then you play Field Of The Dead and show the destruction everywhere. I'm not a movie maker, but i'm sure Scragbat would be able to achieve my vision to its best.

rick_475
02-06-2004, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by koniygn:
Hi Huxley,

Honestly I am a classical-music-lover, I can't say the hiphops are crap although I really hate that, because art is subjective.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd like to comment on that. First I agree that music was once considered as ART. Unfortunately with pop music and its subvariants, music became a simple PRODUCT that people throw to garbage after weeks, months or maybe a year. True art music has succeded to raise admiration for several decades, people love to hear it, not because of the simple melody but rather because of the complexity of the music itself. After all this is what music is all about, innovation and complexity. We don't see a lot of that these days.

Master_Of_Horse
02-06-2004, 03:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Most popular music is more to do with the cult of personality or celebrity than it is to do with the actual musical or lyrical content<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Read the life of Richard Wagner, Hector Berlioz, Beethoven, JS Bach, Ravel, Stravinsky or virtually any other Classical composers and you'll never see a bigger collection of self-absorbed attention-*****s; pop music stars/divas are mere Pygmies in comparison.

I'm excluding Bruckner from my rant.

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Monty_Dan
03-05-2004, 06:29 AM
Being fairly new to Movie Making i find the sound track the most difficult item to decide on. However, one factor is crucial, the individule should pick the track that they want to here, we make movies to please ourselves in the first instance, and should others enjoy also then great.

Keep up the great work so far Movie Makers.

"One mans pleasure is another mans poison"

JRJacobs
03-05-2004, 09:02 AM
I want to weigh in but from a different view - my credentials are 6 movies (SOS ‚© MMIII; The Kuban ‚© MMIII, Sevastopol 1944 ‚© MMIII, By the Dawns Early Light ‚© MMIII, Stille Nacht in Stalingrad ‚© MMIII, Dies Irae ‚© MMIII, Iaijutsu ‚© MMIV)including the one with Bon Jovi tune [The Kuban], thank you Beebop_54. (Here's my Shameless Plug Of Stupid Product 2205) all can be found at www.virtualjake.com (http://www.virtualjake.com)

Musical taste in everyone if different. What Torentino, and Speilberg, and even the Indies have that we don't is someone to compose the music TO THE MOVIE. We must Pick a tune that moves us [and sorry Huxley but even if I think you're right I don't pick music that moves you, I pick music that moves me.] and compose THE MOVIE to the music. - MUCH HARDER.... trust me, cutting and editing to someone else‚'s beat is a B*tch.

Also Every last one of us wants their movie to be different in some way - I'm always trying to pick something not done yet. I'd LOVE to use Carmina Burana but it's been done in a virtual movie. My newest project has a Pearl Harbor scene and I wanted to use attack but.... it's been done] I know you get the picture here.

Finally I find that even though I don't LIKE certain music [as in the virtual movie BEAST], I marvel at the producers ability to make it "work" for the movie and find it ADDS to the movie [again as in the virtual movie BEAST - which I loved by the way]

WB_Outlaw, thanks for keeping the faith man, glad you're still crusin' around. Huxley, even though WB_Outlaw was swatting flies with a sledge hammer, he made a point I constantly harp about. This forum as envisioned by me [and I started the UBI movie maker forum movement] is for critiques not criticism. Tell us how to make it better, not how bad it is.... please?

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Tooz_69GIAP
03-05-2004, 02:09 PM
My opinion:

Music is ones own taste. I don't like Michael Jackson at all really, but Stranger is a damn fine movie, and the music fits it, I'm not a metal fan, but Beast was very cool, and the music fitted it very nicely, and made the film better IMO.

The soundtrack could have the village people for all I cared, so long as it didn't hurt the film, or the action depicted suited the pace and tone of the music!!

But you also have to remember that a lot of movies are made to a piece of music, not the other way round. For example, I am thinking of making a movie to a particular soundtrack, but the soundtrack already exists, it's not something that I can tailor to the action I will depict, I will have to tailor the action to the music that goes along with it. This is much more technically demanding, and if I, or someone else doesn't quite get it right, then so what??

These folks make films on a zero budget (i.e. out of their own pocket http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif), they receive no material reward (unless they enter it into a competition and get a t-shirt!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif), yet many of these movies are of an amazing quality http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif and I reckon the more the better.

Tooz

P.S. Huxley, that radio station just seems to be a bunch of brit students/ex-students attempting to appear "cool" because they are showing a taste of music that is not "mainstream", that is slightly "wacky" and "diverse". Seems very false. I was a student, and live in a student heavy area, and know the rank odour of pseudo-intellectualism and the "LOOK-AT-ME-I'M-DIFFERENT" method of being noticed. But hey, tis just my opinion http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

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