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View Full Version : POLL TIME: Myst IV - Realtime 3D or Pre-rendered?



Behn
04-06-2004, 06:21 PM

Behn
04-06-2004, 06:21 PM

CAGrayWolf
04-06-2004, 06:43 PM
Great question ... albeit a little late for Revelation ... since it is basically already done.

Perhaps a better question/poll would be for the next Myst title ... what we would like to see for that release. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Perhaps the ending has not yet been written
http://jerle.bahro.com/avatars/wolfyMc.jpg (http://www.greetersguild.com/home.html)

inkwell_
04-06-2004, 06:47 PM
This is off topic, but I must say, I love your avi, bk
inki

Cierdwyn
04-06-2004, 06:50 PM
A poll? Already? My oldest daughter used to play a little game with me called "Mom, what do you think of this ...?" I NEVER fared very well. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

You need another option ... I didn't vote because there are aspects of BOTH that I like and would be happiest to see a merging of the 2 game styles. The visuals of Riven were perfect - no question, but I enjoyed the 360 freedom of view in Exile (also visually gorgeous). In Uru (which, I might add, although beautiful, most of the ages are NOT as visually realistic as Riven or Exile) we had to (with great pain) position the (wonky) cursor on things and click to activate them. What I could REALLY go for is a LOT more precise cursor control, like what we had in the earlier games. Plus I prefer to operate in first person in my Myst games and the whole avatar thing kept me in a bad mood http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif - NOT what I want in my Myst experience.

Cierdwyn

KaokanDBZ
04-06-2004, 08:31 PM
Definately pre-rendered. Ubi seems to be doing very nicely with this new MYST game.. 260 panning with incredible video incorporated into already photorealistic renders..... I love it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wolf52371
04-06-2004, 08:56 PM
GreyWolf, if it has already been done for Myst IV, care to enlighten us as to what it is?

Lord Hydronium
04-06-2004, 09:17 PM
Wolf52371: It's pre-rendered panorama, just like Exile.

And I selected pre-rendered on the poll, too. To me, that's one of the things that makes a Myst game (Being pedantic, I am not including Uru as a Myst game).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Plus I prefer to operate in first person in my Myst games and the whole avatar thing kept me in a bad mood - NOT what I want in my Myst experience.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, that would be because Uru is not supposed to be the classic Myst experience. It's a different sort of game, and as a result, has a different sort of interface, style of gameplay, and feel. If you played all of Uru in first-person, I suggest you do it at least once in third person; IMO, the game is really made for it, and big parts of the experience like dynamic camera angles and scale only have their full effect in third person. I'm thinking mostly of Kadish, Gahreesehn, D'ni, and the end of XP1 (no spoilers) here; those ages just don't seem to have their fullest effect in first person.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>260 panning<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, 260 degrees is OK, but 360 sounds even better. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by lordhydronium on Tue April 06 2004 at 08:26 PM.]

Jephomat
04-06-2004, 09:25 PM
Defenitley pre-rendered. I'm glad that's the way Ubi went.

You just cannot get the same quality rendering in realtime.
I adore photo-realistic renders like this "choo choo" by Josh Staub(The Art Director at Cyan).

http://www.thestaubs.com/joshstaub/imgs/choochoo.jpg

Check out his website here (http://www.joshstaub.com/) for more awesome pre-rendered artwork and his personal project, "The Mantis Parable".

mszv
04-06-2004, 10:35 PM
I think it depends on the game. I love 3D because the whole wide world is yours, ready to manipulate. The world is alive. The thing that's great about 3D, for the most part, isn't the screenshots (though Uru is this amazing exception), it's the world as you are in it, playing the game. It really feels like you are there, the sheer physicality of it. Uru is like that. Oh yeah, a good 3D world has physics. Objects have gravity and a mass, and when you manipulate them, you experience that. You body has weight and mass, and when you jump, you bounce.

I also like pre-rendered graphics for the visual treat, particularly when they show the hand of the artist. I think that's why Myst is aging reasonably well, even though it's a dated in terms of graphics. The insanely beautiful and completely individualistic Syberia and Syberia 2 is a 2D treat, with 3D character models and wonderful special effects (footprints, snow, etc.) Revelation also looks to be in the "incredibly beautiful" category. I'll miss the 3D interaction, but I'm all prepared to enjoy the Revelation show!

-----------------------------
Regards,
mszv - play as amarez

Put that down, you are not in a game, this is my life!

maztec
04-07-2004, 12:07 AM
I think too many things are focusing on photo-realism. I really like the realm of non-photo-realism. The sketch-quake engine is really awesome. Basically it acts like someone is actively drawing it with a piece of paper while you play. The longer you sit in one place the more detailed it becomes.

Either way. I think pre-rendered is nice, but it doesn't scale very well to fit within the size of the medium or being viewed really close. While realtime rendering can be set up to add more polygons the closer you get.

But in the end. *shrug* Just depends on how it was used. It's something I have to base my opinion on after, not before.

As for pixel hunting, I relaly found the pixel hunting in the previous myst games to be much more annoying and hard to do than in Uru. To me Uru was much more straight forward.

Maz

---
If this is one of my postings and I have not said it's "official news", provided a quoted source for reference to the news, or directly indicated that I am moderating the thread. Then I am posting as a fellow user.

-Ashtar-
04-07-2004, 01:03 AM
After putting in my vote, the split was right down the middle, 50% 3D vs 50% pre-rendered http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It looks like we all have our own preferences and there will never be definite answer to the poll. I can take pre-rendered, I just prefer the realism of 3D. But it doesn't really matter either way since Revelation is almost done.

Stedmister
04-07-2004, 08:02 AM
I just think it wouldn't be the same without pre-rendering. I think within the next 5 to 10 years when may actually be able to walk around in a pre-render world.

zaphodi
04-07-2004, 11:44 AM
I don't want to answer to this poll, because I like both. But I think that Myst IV will be rendered. First it is DVD and second, look to official site, that is like Exile, the image not slide stedily.

Jnathus
04-07-2004, 12:43 PM
If those graphics on the site are screenshots from the game, then Revelation is definitely pre-rendered. Which will NOT stop me from buying it (of course). I just hope they still do the special edition with the soundtrack included like Myst III had.

Wolf52371
04-07-2004, 02:04 PM
Pre-rendering... i was hoping it wasnt going to be used again. I just think the immersion level with full 3d is just so much better than in pre-rendered. You feel like youre really there in 3d.

maztec
04-07-2004, 02:24 PM
Stedmister, uhmm.. My understanding was that Schizm2 was pre-rendered or at least partially pre-rendered..


Maz

---
If this is one of my postings and I have not said it's "official news", provided a quoted source for reference to the news, or directly indicated that I am moderating the thread. Then I am posting as a fellow user.

Behn
04-07-2004, 07:01 PM
Whoa! Pretty much split in half there. And you're right, Jephomat, that photo-realism is pretty incredible. Either way, KUDOS! to the teams at Ubi-Montreal and Cyan.

let this colony know / in the name of the dead / we're coming

Behn
04-07-2004, 07:03 PM
And thanks, inkwell.

I have absolutely no idea what it is.

Actually, if someone can tell me, that'd be great. I was once told it was a Pokemon, but I was skeptical. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

let this colony know / in the name of the dead / we're coming

Maxine MagicFox
04-07-2004, 07:31 PM
I haven't played Uru and don't know anything about it except that it was in a third person view and have only seen few shots. And this simple fact is what keeps me apprehensive and I will not be buying it any time soon (that and the fact that it does not seem to have anything to do with the actual Atrus-family storyline ... correct me if I'm wrong.)

Me, I think I'll go with Myst 3's graphic style. Everything was real, you could turn any which way and it was fantastic. It made everything come to life. I haven't seen Uru's graphics but I thought things looked real enough in Myst 3. Furthermore - it's the Myst style and that to me should be kept.

Umm, and this is embarrasing for me to say for as long as I've been into games, but I have no clue what "pre-rendered" and "real-time" are refering to. Will someone please inform me. ::blushes:: From the talk... is Myst 3 "pre-rendered" and Uru "real-time". Me, I thought the term "real-time" refered to both - anything that allowed a player to experience things in a real life perspective.

However, I will reserve my vote until I actually play the game ^_^

http://mcloz.zeldalegends.net/images/sig3.jpg
WebMistress of Midnight Castle's Legends of Zelda (http://mcloz.zeldalegends.net)

Jephomat
04-07-2004, 08:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I just think the immersion level with full 3d is just so much better than in pre-rendered. You feel like youre really there in 3d. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I disagree,
But as the poll testifies, i think it really comes down to personal opinion.
In some places in Uru i feel i could almost count the number of polygons on the screen.
Sharp edges, unwelded vertices, tree trunks that are basically 8 sided cylinders. The models themselves are quite simple.(they have to be so the can be drawn at a reasonable framerate) It's the texturing that makes uru look as good as it does.
But i don't feel like i get the same level of imersion in Uru. I'm feel like im in a realtime 3D enviroment.
Where in Riven, even though the images are static. The quality of those renders coupled with the audio makes makes it feel real. With a click, my draw drops at the beauty of the next next scene.
In Uru or other realtime games. I don't get that same level of immersion, i find myself picking at them for what they lack. As someone who does alot of pre-rendered stuff i'm probaly biased.
Anyhow, each to his own.

Maztec,
All valid points.

DaDungeon
04-07-2004, 09:16 PM
Once upon a time . . .
waaaaaay before The Mental Mob went into Uru . . .

there was an instant in time . . .
an epiphany beneath the hanging vines . . .
in SCHIZM.

The urge to reach upwards . . .
and trail outstretched fingers . . .
through the finely cut frond-ery . . .

was absolutely . . .
intensely . . .
overwhelming.

From that point on . . .
3D PC games became the ring prize . . .
for which DaDungeon grabs . . .
while riding the carousels of imagination.

Now . . .
with time's passages . . .
3d games can achieve the same near photo-realistic worlds that were once the domain of pre-rendering.

However, DaDungeon wonders if Myst IV will actually go there.

That screenshot with the light filtering into a shadow-dimmed chamber . . .
is intriguing . . .

is it Memorex . . .
or is it "real"?

Is it pre-rendered . . .
or is it 3D rendered?

Zenguy
04-08-2004, 03:47 AM
Personally, I'm a vote for real time 3D.
I love the Myst series' gorgeous graphics, but I also love being immersed in the world I'm exploring. Pre-rendered images are gorgeous, but being 2D they leave me in the role of observer, not of the world itself, but of pictures of the world. I enjoyed Exile, but could not suspend disbelief and become part of what I was playing.

URU has shown that 'gorgeous' is now available in full 3D. Yes, the quality is lower, though not detrimentally so. But for me, the sensation of immersive exploration outweighs the additional resolution of pre-rendered images. Hence my vote for real time 3D.

Phen1
04-09-2004, 01:59 AM
... and then Phen disagreed...

I must say, I became totally immersed in all three Myst games, but in URU I couldn't even get nearly there. It was awful! Everything looked like a computer game, and that was because the quality was so bad from real-time 3D. Also, was it just me or did anyone else notice that the camera angles of URU often got annoying? Chalk my vote up for pre-rendering. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

LiquidTV
04-09-2004, 03:54 AM
Voted prerendered.

I liked Myst 1,2,3, but didn't really like Uru: too short and visually not as mindblowing as the other Mysts were when they were released.

It's a shame that they didn't even use the latest directX 9.0b for Uru. It could have looked much better~!

================================================== ==============

"Where there's always music in the air..."

http://members.chello.nl/cvanzund/twinpeaks/twinpeaks2.jpg

KI Atrus: 00832899 Log Lady [R.I.P.]

Eat_My_Shortz
04-09-2004, 05:14 AM
Well firstly, I'm voting pre-rendered.
However, we cannot use things from Uru such as "the camera angles were annoying" because remember Uru was a THIRD-PERSON. Revelation will almost certainly be FIRST-PERSON so we must only use Uru's first person mode, or use realMYST as a benchmark. However, both of those had some difficult controls which could be made easier.

The reason I am voting pre-rendered is firstly, the graphics are better. Albeit, not immensely better, and I reckon realtime they could get it somewhere between Riven and Exile if they tried. But lets go the full mile and 0wn it up.

Secondly, because I do think you can be better immersed in a world when you ARE an observer being shown creations from all around (360 degrees is important) rather than controlling it yourself. Do remember the whole idea of Myst was to not have any interface, a simple click through. The realtime controls really add an extra layer to that interface and distract from the immersion.

That said, I am all for realRiven!!! I just don't think we're quite ready for a realRevelation.


NOW the second part of my reply. Taking all information so far into account, I believe it will definitely be pre-rendered, 360 degree panorama like Exile. Look at the trailer. Notice the camera never moves, only rotates. And the way it does, it feels just like Exile rotation. Also the graphics from those screenshots are way too advanced for realtime at the moment.

So I believe Ubi are making the right decision with this and truly believe it will be the best Myst/D'ni game ever, if not the best game of all time!

Phen1
04-09-2004, 08:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> it will be the best Myst/D'ni game ever, if not the best game of all time! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Until Myst V, you mean. Right? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

_ Paula _
04-09-2004, 03:36 PM
While it's too late to affect Myst Revelation, I voted 3D. I really enjoyed the Uru experience. Yes, I've played all three Myst games and loved them...but I also love Uru. You weren't confined to just 1 person or 3rd person view in Uru, you could pick whichever one you wanted.

I also enjoyed the freedom of movement that Uru afforded. With the exceptions of areas that just weren't available for exploration yet, I could wander and look at just about anything from many different angles in Uru. Point and click paths now leave me frustrated when I can't go where I want to.

Paula (Pa'lua in Cavern)

Behn
04-10-2004, 09:42 PM
WHOA - RIGHT ON!

I was actually thinking about realRIVEN the other day...what a cool idea it would be.

What a beautiful world this will be.

let this colony know / in the name of the dead / we're coming

bayo69
04-13-2004, 09:49 AM
i just found this url and the info there its kind of interesting. something about the technology involved in myst 4

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.01/play.html?pg=1

Phen1
04-13-2004, 10:09 PM
Read my sig. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

hogarth...
04-15-2004, 07:36 PM
To throw my two cents in, I would offer the comparison between Stoneship Age in the original Myst and the way it appears in RealMyst.

I have a phobia of the sea. I just don't like it. I always flip the channel quickly if I land on an underwater documentary or a scene of a storm at sea. I also particularly am frightened by the sea at night.

I had no problem playing Stoneship Age in the original Myst. The RealMyst version gives me cold sweats, and I cannot face it when I'm alone at night.

This is the power of real-time 3D environments, coupled with effective lighting and sound.

Prerendering provides richer visual detail - no question - but for the sense of "being there", it cannot compare to real-time 3D. It's a personal judgement whether you *prefer* one or the other in game play. I know - for me - that it makes things much more challenging in Stoneship Age!

********

hogarth

Phen1
04-15-2004, 09:10 PM
So, hogarth... which side are you taking? You didn't make yourself clear on that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

hogarth...
04-15-2004, 10:16 PM
Sorry - I didn't take a side because I'm not really on one or the other. I appreciate each mode for what it offers, and find it hard to say one or the other is "preferable". It's apples and oranges. I loved the look of Riven, and I loved the immersive quality of Uru. (And Stoneship Age in RealMyst scares the bejeesuss out of me.) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

********

hogarth

Phen1
04-26-2004, 06:25 AM
This is quite odd. Realtime is winning, but on most of people's posts people argue for pre-rendered! Is someone cheating on the polls? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

Coronagold
04-26-2004, 07:59 AM
I love Stoneship in realMyst! I think the creepiest is Selenetic at night. It''s pitch black!

Behn
04-26-2004, 08:51 PM
Nope, not me.

I read that Wired article. Frickin' A, man. TREES!

let this colony know / in the name of the dead / we're coming

Zenguy
04-27-2004, 02:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bayo69:
i just found this url and the info there its kind of interesting. something about the technology involved in myst 4

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.01/play.html?pg=1<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1 million trees at 30 frames/sec http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif
The images in the article still have that computer-cartoonish look, mainly due to the ground and trunk textures. Also the foliage doesn't seem to cast shadows. But all in all the gap between real-time and pre-rendered is closing rapidly.

As for realRiven - YES PLEASE.

Coronagold
04-27-2004, 05:13 AM
Regenerative plantlife is one of the main attractions of Revelation.

ricvannoy
04-27-2004, 11:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CAGrayWolf:
Great question ... albeit a little late for Revelation ... since it is basically already done.

Perhaps a better question/poll would be for the next Myst title ... what we would like to see for that release. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ok, here's a stab:

MYST V: Deception

This episode would show the opposite side of the Myst characters. The bad side of Atrus, the good side of Sirus etc. Or perhaps the first person view through each character of the others. Maybe you could select the character you wanted and run the game using a unique set of puzzles and views based on the character selected. My 2cents. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

_Perhaps the ending has not yet been written_
http://www.greetersguild.com/home.html<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Phen1
04-28-2004, 05:43 PM
Gee, I really think that if they go back to Sirrus and Achenar again after Revelation, then they WILL be getting awful repetitive. How 'bout MYST V: A NEW START

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

Coronagold
04-28-2004, 08:24 PM
Eat your cheeseburger.

earthinvasion
04-29-2004, 07:23 AM
Hey look, the system requierments would make it seem that Myst IV is pre-rendered!!!!! Yipee!! I mean, how else could they have the gorgeous graphics on video cards three years old? The graphics look better than Uru and Uru took a very good graphics card.
(However, if my speculations turn out to be wrong and it's realtime, I'll still be happy)

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

There are three kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't.

StarScrap
05-16-2004, 06:10 PM
Pre-rendered all the way!

Simple, elegant, beautiful.

Phen1
05-17-2004, 12:19 AM
Rock on, StarScrap! So... uh... you got any muscle? Help me out here? it looks like we're losing by about 6 percent... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

JFT117
05-17-2004, 12:30 AM
Wow.. that is a tough question for me. I love both.

Depends on what you want in a game. Uru had to be realtime because it was supposed to be multiplayer. The Myst games are traditionally pre-rendered, so between making it one of the bunch, and making it more realistic (which if it's single player, is usually the way to go), Ubi choose prerendered.

I think it was a good idea for them to change M4 to prerended, seeing how originally it was realtime. Anyone know what the company that originally was developing M4 did with their game engine?? 'Cause I need one. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But technically speaking, M4 is real time... exactly how, and how much I'm not sure. Seems like it uses many pre-rendered elements, and puts them together in real-time. Exile did a little of that with it's panning (the sprint engine). Although clearly the realtime side of Myst 4 is much more sophisticated the just panning. I was especially impressed with that box you can move about in the game footage from e3.

But then all interactive programs are technically in real time. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Phen1
05-17-2004, 12:34 AM
Please explain. How is M4 realtime? I was under the impression it was Prerendered... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

JFT117
05-17-2004, 01:45 AM
Ermm.. it IS pre-rendered. But there is a give and take to pre-rendering and real-time. There is pre-rendered in real-time games (like Uru) in the form of textures. In a similar way, Pre-rendered games use real-time. Myst and Riven only had effectively image maps that were linked, and stuck video clips over them. Exile was different though in that it panned in real-time. It would take a list of prerendered images, and blend them together on the fly into nodes, and the hotspots and animations we're laid over the original images, like in myst and riven, only in a 3d sphere.

From what I see (although I don't know for a fact), Myst 4 would likely do the same thing. It would take a bunch of prerendered images, and blend them together in a sphere arangement. Only difference is that they seemed to have used layers for some of the the lighting and 3d effects (hence the UBER cool DOF stuff). Animal interaction, and object interaction would also be using the real-time side of the game to function. Plus the layers could possibly explain day/night cycles.

However, Srikandi said something in another thread about how there was a roller coaster sort of animation that you could pan around while it was playing. Not too hard if its a large animation, and you can pan limitedly. Or maybe have a rendered animation of the front, and one of the back, and blend them together (in real-time...) so that you can pan. And some people got dizzy playing exile!! LOL!

But I think the distinction between realtime and prerendered is whether the majority of your environment is rendered before hand, or on the fly. So Pre-rendered games can sport quite a bit of real-time features. Although the converse isn't so easy.