1.2 THE WORST PATCH EVER

[GandalfJRR04]

1.2 is by far one of the worst patches for a game i've ever seen. If you guys have xfire my name on there is GandalfJRR2k1. Message me and my friend and I will be mercs to see if u can beat us as spies. If you can that'll prove that 1.2 is balanced if not we will prove it. 1.2 is virtually impossible to win on with good mercs playing against you. All the carebears who ruined this game for the pros thanks guys, thanks a lot.

[GandalfJRR04]

1.2 is by far one of the worst patches for a game i've ever seen. If you guys have xfire my name on there is GandalfJRR2k1. Message me and my friend and I will be mercs to see if u can beat us as spies. If you can that'll prove that 1.2 is balanced if not we will prove it. 1.2 is virtually impossible to win on with good mercs playing against you. All the carebears who ruined this game for the pros thanks guys, thanks a lot.

[keeblerelfe]

You're welcome. I'm glad I could give you the opportunity to learn some real tactics rather than use cheap exploits to win over and over.

------------------------------
Fisher: "How did you keep [this data disk] away from them?"
Shetland: "Just wash your hands when you're done with it.

[poseyjmac]

it would be unintelligent to assume that Ubi made these changes based on feedback by the community. for all you know it might not have been the original intent for ubi to let spies be as aggressive as they were before 1.2.

anyway, blow off your steam with colevant and others if it makes you feel better, just know its not going to change and you are wasting your time

[Colevant]

ofcourse, they only thought it was cheap cuase they sucked to bad to figure out how to get away. but thats our fualts huh, cuase we were just too good for them...

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Colevant]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poseyjmac:
it would be unintelligent to assume that Ubi made these changes based on feedback by the community. for all you know it might not have been the original intent for ubi to let spies be as aggressive as they were before 1.2.

anyway, blow off your steam with colevant and others if it makes you feel better, just know its not going to change and you are wasting your time<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


ya, im sure ubisoft was like, we dont listen to what people say, lets just randomly do things to the game, that have just somehow been what all the crybabies wanted. whatever u ******. u can think all ur cries didnt get heard and this was by luck. but it wasnt. they listend to the babies and changed the game to make it easier for them. well, some of us had no problem with it cuase we already knew how to counter alot of the tricks. now that its changed, its our turn to get it how we want it.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[poseyjmac]

there wasn't anything random about what they did, they made it more like the game that was advertised.

if you really think ubi is going to change it back to its unintended state, you are very disallusioned. why not just adapt and play the game instead of whining on the forums? i just dont see the satisfaction in what you are doing.

[keeblerelfe]

"ofcourse, they only thought it was cheap cuase they sucked to bad to figure out how to get away."

Tell me EXACTLY how you could have dodged or avoided the SS + SC tactic. (Hint: You can't.) And sure, you could break out of the SS + Grab as a merc, but the game turned into a button mashing contest when that happened- last time I chcecked, PT was NOT Mario Party.

------------------------------
Fisher: "How did you keep [this data disk] away from them?"
Shetland: "Just wash your hands when you're done with it.

[dojomann]

face it, cr@p loads of people have been whining about the 3sc... and Ubisoft gave in... what more could you want. they listened, and now you're still whining. im ashamed.

[keeblerelfe]

I'm letting out the last of the whine in me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

------------------------------
Fisher: "How did you keep [this data disk] away from them?"
Shetland: "Just wash your hands when you're done with it.

[poseyjmac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dojomann:
face it, cr@p loads of people have been whining about the 3sc... and Ubisoft gave in... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

unless you have proof of that, its just a guess

[SITHDUKE]

Guy i mean no offence here but do we really need another debate on this 1.2 being unfair? I alone just won a few rounds of cinema and a few on vertigo. I had a rookie partner but he did good since it's his first time. It's exhausting work being a spy but victory leaves a nice taste in your mouth http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://sithduke.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sigsith.psd.jpg
-------------------------
"Can ve paint zem gowld? It's kinda me sing ya?"
*Beeeeeeep-Beeeeeeep*
"How About Nooooo?! You crazy dutch *******"

My all time favourite qoute http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And Remember...
Just your friendly Sith posting again ^_^

[TacoLaMmY]

LoL, are you the Gandalf who plays with a McPimp or some such thing?
Heh, no wonder you lament the loss of the 3sc and the ss-cam, owned :P

[Ruzhyo666]

lol haha. Actualy, I think I remember playing with them once, but they didn't use ss+cam, and nor did we. The server crashed when there were 1 second on the last ND http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[ubersoldierX]

I have the Xbox version and I'm pissed about the new point system, it is completely unfair. If all players lose points for losing matches, then unless they play against people who are less experienced then them, they will never level, instead they will be stuck at 0. not only that but its not exactly the best thing when you were level 3, and then becasue of a few matches against more experienced players, you are now down to 1(i.e. me). Big, big dissapointment if you ask me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

http://fpscentral.com/uploads/halo_2_sig.jpg

[TacoLaMmY]

Hehe, I played with them and their ONLY warehouse tactic was ss-cam and ss-grab, ****in *****s http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[GandalfJRR04]

Hey taco talk trash all u want. Play me in 1.2 and see who wins. I didn't have to use ss and cam and since its not in there i cant. Ill still own u anyway cause u quit out of the games u play in. 1.2 sux anyway but i'll still play it just to see you cry cause ur ''better'' lol. If you're ever up for it message me on xfire GandalfJRR2k1.

[TacoLaMmY]

Haha, so angry http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I'm on aim at ix0morgoth0xi, we'll play a few on a very non biased map like hospital http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Of course I'll expect you to also play spy as well, since I love humiliating former aggro-*****s, its a personal joy of mine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

[J904H14]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> posted Tue May 18 2004 06:09 PM
face it, cr@p loads of people have been whining about the 3sc... and Ubisoft gave in... what more could you want. they listened, and now you're still whining. im ashamed.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> dude man r u that dumb. LoL thats sooooooooo stupid it make me laugh. Thi patch seems AWSOME! its gotten to be dumb when u can be a spy and not even have to sneak around It was just like a 3rd persom Merc almost. Tons of ppl didnt even go after ND133s just tried to kill Mercs. And anyway the Gas=pass out= jump on the head was gettin SOOOOOOO old. No way u could avoid it.

[dojomann]

dood, wtf are you smoking... why did u just call me dumb? you just agreed with me. I meant that the 3sc was freaking cheap, and ppl were saying "take this stupid cheap tactic out" and guess what ubi did for patch 1.2...

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

nothing gets past you, eh sleuth?

[Ruzhyo666]

UBI didn't take out 3sc/ss+grab because we cried about it, they did it because it was an overlooked exploit, and fixed it to make it like it was meant to be.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[lex727]

I'm for the patch 100% although the sticky cam thing seems to be still present. Are there different builds of the patch? (I've got built 53) and it's true about spies, especially in the warehouse which I think is more of the merc map anyway. But you can get good people that WILL win that map. It just got a bit harder and that's what I like. I myself won a few times but most of the time I get to 1/3 situation. And that's because I'm still learning as a spy. I think it's great now. Stealth is what is needed now (and skill) now just running around killing everyone and getting the job done. (Although it is still possible) I say that people who complain should replay the original SC and Hard and learn what the Stealth is. The patch is great! And now I get malfunction a lot more often as a merc which leaves me pretty much bliend which is also another + for the balancing.

&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.melkosoft.chat.ru/Unexpected.bmp&quot; width=&quot;305&quot; height=&quot;150&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; border=&quot;0&quot;&gt;
Pray it's only a nightmare!

[EngageGoathead]

They ****ing ruined the game, straight out. When I heard a new patch was out I thought "Hey maybe they'll fix the glitches". Nope, they just nerfed mines to the point of useless-ness. It is impossible to play, the spies run way to fast to control, and the controls felt sloppy. The new patch totally ruined the game, I'm selling SCPT now and buying something worthwhile to play.

http://img13.photobucket.com/albums/v39/Goathead/goat_01.jpg

[lex727]

I found that the mines are still quite effective. You just need to hide them better. They jost do not explode when you moving real slow. They still help. But it's your call. If you do not enjoy the game as much as you used to you should probaby sell it. But if I were you I'd wait a little bit. Perhaps you will like it. And there is no one preventing your from Running the 1.1 version.

&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.melkosoft.chat.ru/Unexpected.bmp&quot; width=&quot;305&quot; height=&quot;150&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; border=&quot;0&quot;&gt;
Pray it's only a nightmare!

[Ruzhyo666]

To the point of useless ness? No no no no no! I just got out of a game and I only had to fire my gun on 2 occasions, they died by my mines most of the time :P. Mines still own, I am not even sure how the nerfed them yet, so I highly doubt the are "nerfed to uselessness."

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[ViewtifulUly]

Hmm... Revisiting the forums after 1.2 has been released, I see Covalent is still a moron. However, Gandalf & Pwn-McPimp gave me the pleasure of playing with them once. Sure, they were quite aggressive with the spies, but they were good sports, and were pretty damn nice too. They laughed when they died, and gave every game a 'GG' after its time. I'm going to see myself this weekend as to how nerfed the spies really have been, but one thing is for sure... It's true. Alot of levels are REALLY HARD to sneak around unnoticed, and I worry a bit for the spies sake.

[TacoLaMmY]

For the record, played the team of Gandalf & McPimp, and got our asses handed to us quite nicely http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We tried to put up a fight, but for the most part were beat down like orphans at a brothel http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But they are true gentlemen and good sports, and contrary to most on here who will talk the smack and not back it up, they can bring it, and bring it without rubbing it in your faces. I highly recommend a match with them if you want to see how its done http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[SpiffyMcGee]

Seriously, great guys. Awesome players. It kinda opened my eyes a bit in some ways. I learned that if you want to be great at this game, you gotta mix and match, a little aggro, a little stealth. If you're strictly stealth or strictly aggro, you might win a few games, but balance brings greatness. Thanks to Gandalf and McPimp for the great games. We hope to be more of a challenge next time we meet. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[GandalfJRR04]

Well after havin the match with tacolammy who posted previously i realized a few things. Warehouse and Deftech Belew (as long as mercs go inside the buildings) are out in the way of decent maps. The patch itself is not the worst patch ever as previously stated. I wish i could snap some mercs but unless they're n00bs this doesn't happen anymore. Now u rely on well placed cams, good stealth, and good old-fashioned ''goombain.''
I wish they wouldn't have changed the height of trap placement cause that hurts some areas drastically, but the 1.2 patch has shown me soe good things. Friends list is great, black list is great, the ip thing is great. The overall balance is ridiculously hard to get used to but u can. If there's some real good way to win at Deftech and Warehouse as spies now, let me know.

Xfire tag: GandalfJRR2k1
Gamer tag: Gandalf2k4

[EzNub]

it makes me sad when i read what some wannabes try to explain. it is not impossible to avoid it! why the **** cant you understand this? its like **** a good spy snapped my neck i want to have a new patch because i am too stupid to avoid it. the gamepatch were made for the majority and the majority is nub ( sorry if my english is not right)

60% in this community are nubs

[SpiffyMcGee]

EzNub, how are you any better than these supposed newbs now? They were crying to have ss+cam taken out before, and now you're crying cause it was taken out? You should take a moment to think about what's going on.

[TheNSB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ruzhyo666:
The server crashed when there were 1 second on the last ND http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You mean "The host pressed F12 when..." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[EzNub]

they cry because they believe ss+grab is impossible to avoid. and i just say that you can avoid it so why is it taken out in the new patch. i think to make it easier for people who cant play that good

60% in this community are nubs

[Cypher72]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J904H14:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> posted Tue May 18 2004 06:09 PM
face it, cr@p loads of people have been whining about the 3sc... and Ubisoft gave in... what more could you want. they listened, and now you're still whining. im ashamed.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> dude man r u that dumb. LoL thats sooooooooo stupid it make me laugh. Thi patch seems AWSOME! its gotten to be dumb when u can be a spy and not even have to sneak around It was just like a 3rd persom Merc almost. Tons of ppl didnt even go after ND133s just tried to kill Mercs. And anyway the Gas=pass out= jump on the head was gettin SOOOOOOO old. No way u could avoid it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



J904H14 obviously misunderstood dojomann. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

[Colevant]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ViewtifulUly:
Hmm... Revisiting the forums after 1.2 has been released, I see Covalent is still a moron. However, Gandalf & Pwn-McPimp gave me the pleasure of playing with them once. Sure, they were quite aggressive with the spies, but they were good sports, and were pretty damn nice too. They laughed when they died, and gave every game a 'GG' after its time. I'm going to see myself this weekend as to how nerfed the spies really have been, but one thing is for sure... It's true. Alot of levels are REALLY HARD to sneak around unnoticed, and I worry a bit for the spies sake.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

wow, he can call me a moron and hasnt even tested the new patch yet??? wow, u sure do make urself look smart with no proof to anything.
and im a moron cuase i think giving the merc ,who has deadly weapons to use, a invlun time is a stupid thing. o my bad, u must need the invuln time cuase u cant kill a spy with it. maybe yall should go back to cs or ut to learn on how to hold ur cursor over a moving enemy....

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Colevant]

the only people whining now are the people who didnt need the game to change, cuase it was already balanced. we won as many games with each side. and there was something to fear as a merc. now there is nothing to fear as a merc, cuase u have nice invuln times and u know the spies cant kill you, unless ur a sucky merc and cant use ur items... (ofcourse , thats why people were *****ing in the first place, they somehow couldnt kill a spy with all the weapons at their use.)
we just dont see the point in nerfing a spy to defensless. sorry if thats "stupid" or "ghey" to alot of u, but it does make both sides more fun when they both pose a threat...
guess people like to just have it as easy as possible for a merc cuase they wanna be a spy quicker or something, who knows.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Instinct1234]

i am a Splinter Cell Expert(the first one), and i feel that people are playing this game without really caring about the stealth. You are not suposed to just run out and shoot if you are a spy "your shadows are your best weapons".You need to stick to the shadows and not ko/kill a merc just because you see him. let him go and move on....CARFULLY. Just a seg, let me know if you have any commments

http://upload.serverseed.com/pictars/newsplintersig.jpg

[Colevant]

a good merc can get past the shadow hiding pretty easy. its called, flashlight, lazer, motion , and emf vision. o, and their sound detector helps them too. along with the alarms and everything else that helps give u away when u shoot them.
the element of staying hidden in this game isnt really there if the mercs are actually good. u just look for whats being shot out, follow ur sound, if u think they are in the ceiling, use lazer or vision to see through and track. plenty of ways to see a spy, cuase if i know a spy is in a certain location, hes going to be found very quick. always happens when im a merc.
u can move to where u want without being detected, but once ur there, u will be found if the merc isnt a ******.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Instinct1234]

good point, good point.....well, then i say just run around because it is nearly imposible for a merc to shoot you when you both are running.I DONT KNOW? MAYBE THE PATCH WAS GOOD!

http://upload.serverseed.com/pictars/newsplintersig.jpg

[(SmokeCheeba)]

1.2 patch for the xbox is great. I love it, and it doesnt make it harder for spies to win. I never had big problems to beat a good pair of mercs, so I can still beat good mercs at the game even after this patch given that I have a good partner. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

_________________________________________________

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7301/415.gif
_________________________________________________

"Forgiveness is between them and God, My job is to arrange the meeting." - John Creasy

[Instinct1234]

there we go....mercs can be beaten

http://upload.serverseed.com/pictars/newsplintersig.jpg

[Irish Shadow]

Ok, first off, I'd like to say that you are all a little dumb. You're all b****ing about the gameplay and that's not a problem at all. The problem lies in the revamped ranking system. I was never awesome but I didn't suck. Before the patch I was a level 3 and now I'm a level 1. I used to play with people a level or so higher than me so that I could gradually gain experience without the penalty of losing points when I lose. With the patch I lost a little under 200 pts...in one day. What really made me mad was the fact that I won a match, got 5-6 kills (as merc), didn't tk or commit suicide and do you know how I was rewarded? I lost 100 f***ing points. I didn't leave the game either. What's more people who were level 5's are now level 8's. People are now in level ranges that use letters (AA is an example). So, in conclusion, the gameplay is fine...it's the ranking system that is f***ed up.

[Instinct1234]

is the ranking system really a big prob....who care about ranking? striving for an unmarked goal, that would make you play till your dead. ahhhhhhh

http://upload.serverseed.com/pictars/newsplintersig.jpg

[GandalfJRR04]

Did anybody read my reply to my own post???? It's on page 2 if you do wanna read it. I have it on PC and i don't see 1.2 as horrible now after playin it for a full day. Levels like warehouse and deftech can be tough, however. If you can basically do a complete u-turn on how u played u can win. Either way I do know some people who quit xbox live just because nobody would play unranked games for fun. (how i would play the xbox version) It's like "Oh, no it's a level one he's gonna suck ban him." But, then you are really a level 8 on your other account and you would've owned them but you didn't even get the chance to play. That in my opinion is total bs.

Xfire name: GandalfJRR2k1
SCPT Gtag: Gandalf2k4

[Colevant]

o, i see, the xbox people are trying to join a pc topic again......
people start making ur topics with PC or something, that way these ppl with xbox dont try compairing to 2 totally different types of play.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[(SmokeCheeba)]

The ranking system needs to be done away with. Most people complain about playing against a higher skilled player and others wont even join a room that has a host of more then 4. I think that rankin system is BS and it give too many people with no life a reason to stay at home and ***** all the stats that they can. For shame. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

_________________________________________________

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7301/415.gif
_________________________________________________

"Forgiveness is between them and God, My job is to arrange the meeting." - John Creasy

[G3.tumtum]

Yes, Indeed, This patch is the worst patch ever.
After I've installed it nothing works! WHY!?



*Really looking forward to SC3*

[Instinct1234]

Just get rid of it..ahhhhhhh

http://upload.serverseed.com/pictars/newsplintersig2.jpg

[Instinct1234]

it might be good for something though

http://upload.serverseed.com/pictars/newsplintersig.JPG

[Ruzhyo666]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheNSB:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ruzhyo666:
The server crashed when there were 1 second on the last ND http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You mean "The host pressed F12 when..." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would I push F12 1 second from a win? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[GandalfJRR04]

LOLOL u never knew that for fraps f12 makes fps come up. Also the game has random crashes to desktop all the time. Don't even try to say that it doesn't cause we all know it does lol. Anyway if u wanna play me again cause ur so "good" xfire me anytime at GandalfJRR2k1.

[Danik0226]

I'd like to play you as spy. I'm not sure who I could have as a partner. A few people in my clan would be willing to play I'm sure, but whether they would want to or not is usually random.

My AIM is Jeff959697

-----------------------------
MP name is ISA-Danik

[XeRoZeK]

are you ****ing kidding me

i just finished playing my 2 clanmates that where merc and i was spy with my other freind.

They kicked the **** out of us, i was totaly helpless in everyway. I couldnt attack when i was in combat because i cant SS + Grab and btw i dont SS + Cam cause i dont do that ****. Its almost imposible now. That tazer is like 12 feet now damn. I can tell it got bigger i play this damn game everyday. Now its impossible 2 win even a decent merc. Man you have to be almost perfect in every way 2 be a spy. I use 2 like being a spy now its kinda getting retarted. The only part of the patch i lik :was the freinds menu and thats it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

[XeRoZeK]

By the way danik, gandalf is really really good and it would be a good match 2 see

[SITHDUKE]

I've played both Danik & Gandalf( Hey guys http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and i don't remember Danik being a pushover. I can't remember my game with Gandalf :S

http://sithduke.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sigsith.psd.jpg
-------------------------
"Can ve paint zem gowld? It's kinda me sing ya?"
*Beeeeeeep-Beeeeeeep*
"How About Nooooo?! You crazy dutch *******"

My all time favourite qoute http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And Remember...
Just your friendly Sith posting again ^_^

[Instinct1234]

guys, guys...we must all accept our differenct opinions and get along. shall we. NOT

http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v185/stewman/newsplintersig2.jpg

[Ruzhyo666]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ruzhyo666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheNSB:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ruzhyo666:
The server crashed when there were 1 second on the last ND http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You mean "The host pressed F12 when..." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would I push F12 1 second from a win? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never mind! I get what you mean now! I was host at the time, and it was my server that crashed. 1 second from a win http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[XeRoZeK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Instinct1234:
guys, guys...we must all accept our differenct opinions and get along. shall we. NOT

http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v185/stewman/newsplintersig2.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


heehee what u trying 2 be the peacemaker well it aint working now im 2 times pissed. oh well i guess 1.2 is the worst patch evaaaaa heeheee

[HarkoninVSC]

Not the worst ever but they need some balancing issues corrected.

No defense- need to limit mercs ability to detect.

[Instinct1234]

nah, just kiddin

http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v185/stewman/newsplintersig2.jpg

[XyZspineZyX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colevant:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poseyjmac:
it would be unintelligent to assume that Ubi made these changes based on feedback by the community. for all you know it might not have been the original intent for ubi to let spies be as aggressive as they were before 1.2.

anyway, blow off your steam with colevant and others if it makes you feel better, just know its not going to change and you are wasting your time<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


ya, im sure ubisoft was like, we dont listen to what people say, lets just randomly do things to the game, that have just somehow been what all the crybabies wanted. whatever u ******. u can think all ur cries didnt get heard and this was by luck. but it wasnt. they listend to the babies and changed the game to make it easier for them. well, some of us had no problem with it cuase we already knew how to counter alot of the tricks. now that its changed, its our turn to get it how we want it.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, type like you got past 3rd grade. It makes it easier for us with an IQ above 90.

Anyway, so a cheap, overlooked tactic which craps on stealth and is impossible to get out of (cheap, ******, cheap) which wasn't there in the first place in XBOX, making the game stealth, LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE, gets taken out and you cry about it.

You're under the delusion that "a hndfullll of craybabeis" "whined" to Ubi, and a "perfectaly legimate tactic" got taken out.

Idiot.

Stop lying to yourself. Even if nobody asked Ubi, they would have taken it out anyway. The game is STEALTH action. Oh noes, people can't **** all over stealth anymore 'cause people whined! Ubi certainly meant "cheap whoring" when they said "stealth"! Yeah!

So, a "tactic" that's impossible to get out of and another used by aggro-*****s that makes the game a bit like Mario Party (tap tap tap) got taken out. And this ruins the game for those that are apparently "pros" (more like *****s on crutches).

I don't get your logic. Probably because I can't "get" something that isn't there. I repeat, STOP LYING TO YOURSELF.

I'm gonna go register www.ubihatesaggro*****s.com (http://www.ubihatesaggro*****s.com) as my new domain name. After all, it's true.

[Instinct1234]

its no good sitting here and arguing about it, whats done is done.

http://mayhem-ug-agency.cjb.net
http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v185/stewman/newsplintersig2.jpg

[themulf]

Hey gandy, its me TheMulf.
Yeah I played with gand here and there getting my *** pwnd. You do have to admit you relayed way to heavly on these tactics, your a damn good agressive spy, but with that set up before, its just way unfair. Time to re-invent some new tactics, like tricking the mercs then jumping on em while teammate hacks. some ****. loll

[Shadow-Strike.]

Im afraid i was pinoned by him as well damn man i agree spies have a huge disadvantage now.

[Norondor]

Oh right! The way the game IS MEANT TO BE PLAYED. Because there's only one valid way to play spy! All other play styles are the result of balance issues!

Seriously, could you people be bigger babies? It's not really the fault of aggro spy players that you suck at avoiding death as mercs. Jumping, ducking, turning or charging are all very effective ways of avoiding having your neck broken. If you have a decent teammate, you should be able to take aggro spies any day of the week. I mean, I'm sorry that having your team killed by spies is so traumatizing, but I fail to see why that means that spies should have NO EFFECTIVE DEFENSE AGAINST MERCS BESIDES FLEEING, like they do now.

I mean, I agree that taking out SS+camera and double jumping are good changes -- they were all but impossible to avoid as a merc. But this effective inability to choke or kill mercs is completely ******ed. The anti-aggro people are effectively asking for a gotdamned bot match, with everyone "adapting" by doing the same thing, every match.

If Ubi does give half a care for their playerbase, they'll let aggro spies play the way they want to as well in the next patch, either by getting rid of this asinine invincibility after being shocked or, better, putting in a server-side option for post-shock invulnerability duration. That way all the scrubs who want to play a different game "the way it's meant to be played" can play on their own servers, with their own rules.

p.s. playing stealthily doesn't mean you're more "MATURE" than players who prefer aggro. However, saying that you're more mature than any other player does prove that you're a Grade A Whiner.

p.p.s. I don't see much of a point in using the Xbox version as the sole ideal that the PC version should aspire to be like. Unless, of course, they're going to be compatible. Which they are not.

[G3.tumtum]

I say it again: This new patch sucks.
After I've innstalled it nothing works.
When I try to join a sever, and I get in I stay there for 3 sec and then I'm kicked out by PB... says there's a duplicate guide! Whata f.... is this.. I had the same problem before when me and a friend in a lan joined the same server. but now this sucky message comes everytime I joine a server!


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif*Really looking forwward to SC3* http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

[XyZspineZyX]

I hope Ubi make an anti-whine patch for these forums !!!

if the game was perfect.... I'd bet there'd be someone whining about it being perfect !!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~sangvle/MonkeySig.jpg

[MrBisto]

How can the patch itself "suck" when the majority of players have their game up and running? If it was the patches fault your game doesn't work, then no PC's would be running it.

Unfortunately, it may just be your set up.

----------------------------------------------------------

GamerTag 1: DJToot

Available in Amped 2, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, Race Driver 2, Crimson Skies, Rainbow Six 3 and PGR 2

[GhostRiderLSOV]

It happens in all games...noone can be satisfied with anything. And in all games there are some folks that play to win as fast as possible usually by using something that puts the enemy in a great disadvantage which can also be an exploit/cheap tactic.
Usually when something like that gets deleted , those that used it a lot, hate it's gone and defend it's use, those that didn't like it defend the removal.
I also see many people who are like "I know because I can kill (insert random number here) mercs/spies alone" or "I can win (insert random number) games without a problem". Not all players are clanners/play the game all the time to master it like those folks do, and some don't want to play or have enough time to go on for 5 hours. I usually have little time lately but I end up going around trying to dodge 3 smoke nades/mario jumpers when I am a merc. I'd prefer to play against spies that are very sneaky and try to avoid contact or as a spy I like trying being sneaky as well, I might lose/die (I usually do as spy, but because I am not competent enough yet.) but I wouldn't like going out aggro, sure it's a way for some spies, but there are some that go *just that* without going for any objective and just smoke the area with nades, and jump around for your head or try to grab you.
I don't know how the ss+cam is a defense that is no longer valid. The camera is still there, and so is it's gas, you just have to be more careful to use it (while the merc is moving or maybe sitting somewhere) apart from having him surely pinned when he is shocked but I don't think it's much of a difference.
It's funny how in the demo and before the game was out everyone liked the spy how he was without knowing the mario jumping (avoidable with teamwork as most people say, but some times too irritating) and the ss+cam. But after some time the game got out very fast and convenient ways were found and some abused to death (literally). One is now gone, and people don't like it...
Those that liked ss+cam say it needed skill, well, find the skill now to win without it. And yes I never used it (wasn't *skilled enough*) and I take my chances once again by trying to use those shadows.

[Colevant]

" quoted by someone
Seriously, could you people be bigger babies? It's not really the fault of aggro spy players that you suck at avoiding death as mercs. Jumping, ducking, turning or charging are all very effective ways of avoiding having your neck broken. If you have a decent teammate, you should be able to take aggro spies any day of the week. I mean, I'm sorry that having your team killed by spies is so traumatizing, but I fail to see why that means that spies should have NO EFFECTIVE DEFENSE AGAINST MERCS BESIDES FLEEING, like they do now."

excatly. if the mercs would work as a team, help each other out, then the cam and neck snaps wouldnt have been a big bother for them. cuase is someone is knocked out, u wake them up. If u see the spy, u shoot, charge, nade, tazer, or punch him down. if u werent smart or didnt work as a team, then sure ur going to get ur *** handed to you. and u should. this new patch has made the mercs unfun to play as cuase it is so easy to kill a spy. Sure its made some people have to play different as a spy, but really it has only hurt everyone.
people always said i was a agro spy, but i sneak around stealthy like everyone else, but once i get detected when nueting a ND, then its time to bust out the defensive moves (which have all been taken out). guess the mercs didnt like actually loosing sometimes or whatever.
I like also how alot of the people are saying ," whats done is done, it wont get changed." well, if all yalls crying got it changed like this, im sure alittle moaning can get it set back to a better path than what its at. if u are all looking for realism to this, stop asking for invuln times for mercs and figure out how to have better strats as a merc. they also require teamwork and strat to win, but no one ever says nothing about that.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[SITHDUKE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>if the mercs would work as a team, help each other out, then the cam and neck snaps wouldnt have been a big bother for them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tell me wheres the teamwork in a ss+cam? There need be none. We should all work together to think hard on some ideas for strategys that are fairly balanced and require practice.

Any suggestions?

http://sithduke.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sigsith.psd.jpg
-------------------------
"Can ve paint zem gowld? It's kinda me sing ya?"
*Beeeeeeep-Beeeeeeep*
"How About Nooooo?! You crazy dutch *******"

My all time favourite qoute http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And Remember...
Just your friendly Sith posting again ^_^

[GhostRiderLSOV]

Yeah, helping each other out for neck snaps, ss+cams, mario jumps is possible in small levels, but if you go for that in let's say Vertigo, one is in the library and the other merc is in the main office, how can you help him? And if both mercs are very close in such levels spies can easily split up and go for the undefended places. :-/

[Colevant]

wheres the teamwork in shooting a gun? there isnt.
dont try using some stupid thing like that to prove a point. the teamwork involved is on how to beat the things that keep getting you. spies use teamwork to beat the mercs that get them, so mercs need to use teamwork to beat the spies that get them. not really a hard concept to grasp, or it atleast shouldnt be...

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[GhostRiderLSOV]

Mercs use teamwork to defend the objectives and not centralise on one spy who might be causing havoc. And if teamwork will be close or loose is different on how the spies work as well. And spies/mercs don't play the same way, it's not even like playing AvP, they use different styles and such.

[SITHDUKE]

Your not getting me. I'm not talking about the gun im sayign there isn't teamwork involved in Shock-Cams. If your in the sight of a merc then obviously hes goiing to shoot at you. It's his job.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SITHDUKE:
Compose yourself in a calm manner and you won't get flamed nearly as much. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your getting wound up again.

http://sithduke.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sigsith.psd.jpg
-------------------------
"Can ve paint zem gowld? It's kinda me sing ya?"
*Beeeeeeep-Beeeeeeep*
"How About Nooooo?! You crazy dutch *******"

My all time favourite qoute http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And Remember...
Just your friendly Sith posting again ^_^

[Colevant]

i think they play the same way, just how u do things is differently. i try to be sneaky as a merc (same with spy). if i see a spy, i kill him. if my teammate is gettn messed up by some spies, i run over and help him.
the best defense is a good offense. but alot of people have seemed to forget that.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[GhostRiderLSOV]

But still in some levels it can't be helped. In those where you need to run a long way to find your teammate, will you do it if there is only one spy and the other is going for an objective? And that's why those tactics can be bothersome, because you *will* be alone at some points.

[Colevant]

and why shouldnt the fear not be there? u dont know what will happen, and thats the fun part.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[GhostRiderLSOV]

The fear is always there, even without ss+cam. But when someone just jumps at you, it usually becomes anticipation for the almost instantly 2nd jump-kill. If I get jump killed after I had been wounded by an explosion or something I wouldn't have a problem. And I have seen spies who try to smoke the whole place with nades, just to get you sleeping and then jump on you and do the double jump/kill.

[XyZspineZyX]

Play the same? Sorry, but no. You honestly think that spies are supposed to give mercs that much of a fight? With your little aggro-whoring (I don't care how sneaky you are, you're still an aggro-*****) The point of the game is a cat-and-mouse game. The point of the spy is not to be caught by the merc. If you do you will probably die. So, going by Ubi's logic, should the spies have a surefire tactic to knock the mercs out no matter how tough they are?

Hell no.

You're lying to yourself. Ubi didn't do this for the whiners, Ubi did this because it was an overlooked exploit that was taken out in the first place for XBOX. So, if you didn't have the little whoring technique in the first place, I guarantee you'd be loving this game, even without SSCam. Why? Because you wouldn't know you could ***** it to hell, helping you realize that you play STEALTH, and you win. Is that so hard for you to understand?

[Colevant]

lol ,people instantly think agro spy means u spam cams.
i rarely used the ss+cam, but i did use the ss+grab, or a shock and smoke nade. but with this new patch, the invuln times the mercs have make all those techniques useless. they are able to run out of the smoke with ease and have no fear of being grabbed.
and agro spies are only brought out by crappy mercs. so if u see a spy messing with u, its cause he knows u suck to bad for u to mess him back up.
The spies should put up some fight also. they arent little monkeys in wetsuits. they are people, with gadgets, who think. and as that, if they find out that the merc is to stupid to guard the nd's correctly, why not put him outta his missery and make neuting the nd that much easier?
its people who think there is only 1 way to play this game that makes it boring. some of the most original and best things u will see in this game is how a spy confronts a merc, and how he takes him out or runs away. with the new patch though, running away is the ONLY option.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[GhostRiderLSOV]

And isn't it unfair calling others newbs because they don't like aggro-spies? I doubt all aggro spies go against newbs just to 'end their misery'. Lots of AS like to be cocky so they do those tactics. Not all AS either, but many do.

[XIII-Midget-]

y not use teamwork?

get ur partner to lay a spy cam in a narrow hallway, then you get the mercs attention and run past where the cam is. merc will follow **smoke** hes down

easy as that. no need for ss+sc.

[Colevant]

the only time i go agro is when ive gotten 1 nd left and still 8+ mins left to mess around. which means the mercs arent skilled enough, so they must be messed with hehe.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[XIII-Midget-]

i actually have to admit id sometimes do that. itd just annoy me to play 2 mins of spy and then the best part of 10 mins as merc, because they are not good enough.

so id get the last one down to 1sec, and then play about with the merc, bash him around a bit, and then take the last one.

doesnt make me aggro, if there decent players id just get it. it just makes me "annoyedthattheotherteamaresuckingsobadihardlygetan ytimeasspy". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

although i always be as stealthy as possible until i get to 1sec on the last one and decide weather or not to play around a bit.

[Colevant]

if thats not the def of a agro spy, then im not one. but it is the skill of the mercs that determine how the spies will play. It has always been that way. Guess thats why i never was hurt by the ss+cam or grab, cuase i knew how to counter it, and therefore it did not bug me.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Danik0226]

It is way too early for people to be judging this game because of how many spies who relied solely, and I do mean solely on spy cam. In one of the games I played the day of the patch, this guy tried using the spy cam over and over. It wasn't until later in the game that he started using alarm snares and the like.

I'm not having nearly as much of a problem as most of you because I didn't use SS+CAM in 1.0 or 1.1, because I thought it was cheap, which it was. I use distractions, and diversions now to get where I need to go, or to flush out mercs. I even know how to use my snares in a given situation. Usually the first few times I can flush a merc out to either snap their neck or jump on them in hospital from the second floor ceiling or run out and grab them from boxes nearby. I'm not an idiot either. I will have two spy bullets placed on both sides that he could possibly approach me from so that I'm always positioned in the shadows out of sight from the direction he is coming in. If I fail to grab or he spots me I shock, and I roll out of the way full speed. There is your helpful hint for avoiding the tazer. I'm sure too many of you are still going for your head on charge against mercs for no particular reason at all.

The key to this game now is to confuse the merc, and to be completely aware of their position at all times. This can be done easily using both the alarm snares, and the spy bullets. You could also use the Spy Cam for the same purpose. One clever use of this was by one of my clanmates Xplode. He had his friend go for one of the second floor chemicals, while I and another Merc were heaidng upstairs. He put a spy cam on the stair well and managed to put us both to sleep. If you wanted you could still have someone using the spy cam in a well placed area such as around a corner, in a door way, or whereever. Plant a spy bullet in that same vicinity to know exactly when that helpless merc is going to run himself in a trap. The difference here is that the spy cam now requires skill and planning to use rather than the click of a few buttons within the span of a couple seconds.

The fact is this is how the game is meant to be played. No more moronic charges from the spies, or ridiculous ranged takedowns (SS+CAM). Whether the game is balanced or not is another thing, but it has nothing to do with the restrictions placed on things like SS+CAM (that had to go). The tazer could probably use considerable range decrease, and after the shock has passed the spy should not fall to the ground. He should be able to run if his buddy manages to shock the merc to buy him some time. The durability of the spies should probably be raised a tiny bit, since when jumps and grabs fail, you will have to run. No if's and's or but's there. If you are revealed you don't go up to the merc and start swinging.

I still want to get a game in with Gandalf and his friend. I'm not claiming that I will crush him, but I do think that I handle the game as a spy much better than the many people who relied exclusively on the spy cam.

-----------------------------
MP name is ISA-Danik

[Ruzhyo666]

Danik: 1
Colvent: 0 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

BTW Colvent: There was no way to counter the ss+cam unless they placed the cam wrong. How many times do you need to be told? If you woke up in the smoke you would sleep. Crouching, dashing, and jumping did not make you immune to the gas. Use your brain d00d.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[Evil-Ronin]

You know its funny... I never really used the sticky cam-sticky shocker combo I mean sure I used a sticky cam on vertigo when mercs where sniping my spawn but other then that I always found alarm snares to be a perfect distraction for me. Though to each their own I suppose.

I can taste colors!!!
No you cant! Your just drinking paint!

[Colevant]

never once have i defended the use of sticky cam. and i dont see where yall keep getting that i do. the only thing i have protested is teh invuln times after being shocked. it stops smoke nades and even grabs. whats fair about that? stop thinking that the only way a spy had was a cam, cuase if thats what u think, then thats probably what u were only using. I used many different ways to get at my enemy, but with invuln times, it kinda puts all the ways to ****. they should have made a way for the cam to not affect the merc after being shocked without making him invuln to other things that are not cheap. even though some of u still think smoke nades and grabs are cheap, but hell, if u think that, u should think the mercs gun is for some odd reason lol.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Colevant]

when u stop generalizing spies and start showing facts to how people play "their" game, then u will see that a spy had more ways than the cam to stop a merc, but with invuln times, it removes those extra ways.
i still cant believe u ppl are wanting invuln times in a game. any other game u would be pissed if someone had god mode....

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[ViciousBebop99]

Dont worry mate, when they fix the auto targeting Tazer the Spies will be a alot easier. Cause lets face it a tazer that shots 10 feet and bends 90 degrees is BS and you all know it. Last but not least not even the best spies could beat decent mercs anymore....its a fact Jack!

So, please stop calling all the old Aggro Spies noobs, because we were the ones that whooped your *** before and we will do it again.

[Colevant]

no kidding vicious. all they can do is call us noobs when we were the ones handing them their ***'s when they had all the deadly guns lol.
its like if u got knifed in cs by the person u saw running down a long hallway and couldnt do nothing about it. or getting guanted in q3. or just slapped in the face by your grandma. its called ownd.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[XyZspineZyX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colevant:
never once have i defended the use of sticky cam. and i dont see where yall keep getting that i do. the only thing i have protested is teh invuln times after being shocked. it stops smoke nades and even grabs. whats fair about that? stop thinking that the only way a spy had was a cam, cuase if thats what u think, then thats probably what u were only using. I used many different ways to get at my enemy, but with invuln times, it kinda puts all the ways to ****. they should have made a way for the cam to not affect the merc after being shocked without making him invuln to other things that are not cheap. even though some of u still think smoke nades and grabs are cheap, but hell, if u think that, u should think the mercs gun is for some odd reason lol.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guess what? Invuln to grab must mean Ubi doesn't like SS+Grab either! And no, SSG isn't as "cheap" as SSCam, but if the spy is host he'll pull it off almost always, and if the spies ping is equal to yours it becomes Mario Pary. It doesn't take a leap of logic to figure out that if Ubi left this stuff out of XBOX, they didn't have any "whiners" to make them get rid of it. So, the only logical conclusion is that Ubi doesn't like it either.

And please find your shift key.

[Colevant]

im pretty sure they know ss+grab was around, thats common sense to any1. i think the first thing i tried when i got this game was ss+grab.
and so what if it becomes a mario party, thats what games are anyway huh. who reacts the fastest and presses the button quicker usually is the person to shoot first... so anything else u "know" that ubisoft was thinking?

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[XyZspineZyX]

The whole point is that this isn't UT2004. This is a tactical game, probably not even considered a shooter by most. If the spies had live rounds and grenades, and everybody ran around at unrealistic speeds, and there were no ND133's, and the game wasn't supposed to be stealth and the mercs had shotguns it would be a game that would be "Mario Party" proportions. And note: This isn't even Mario Party. You tap one button as fast as you can to live. THIS IS NOT STEALTH. Since when was this game supposed to completely depend on the tapping of one button as gameplay? Other games have map knowledge, weapon, aim, and many other things in addition to reflexes. The way it plays with SSGrab depends upon nothing but 95% ping and 5% tapping. Is this Ubi's tactical game of cat-and-mouse? It isn't. So they fixed it.

EDIT: And I don't care if your horrendous grammar and punctuation is a habit. Fix it and people will take your insane ideas a lot more seriously.

[Colevant]

Is this Ubi's tactical game of cat-and-mouse? It isn't. So they fixed it.


lol, ya sure they did, cuase now its the merc (cat) who chases the spy (mouse), while the mouse has no defense left but to run. that sounds alot like a cat and mouse game to me man. stop contradicting yourself and post something that makes sense. no one runs around at unrealist speads. and u dont think shooting games arent tactical either? every game is tactical if u can make a plan in it on how to win. all the spies can do to kill a merc is jump on them 2 times or snap their neck. but the neck snap just got nerfed for some reason. ofcourse, they left the 10 foot tazer, so u must think thats correct huh? the fact is this game is still buggy and its going to take more patchs that change the game play till it gets to where its balanced. and nerfing the spies only on 2 patchs doesnt make a balanced game to me.....

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[XyZspineZyX]

I meant that your little world where these exploits are okay (a.k.a. pre-patch 1.2) isn't the "cat-and-mouse" (Ubi's phrase, not mine) game Ubi so hyped. So they fixed it 'till it was. And it's fixed in the regards of spies. I never said 1.2 was perfect, as the tazer does need some nerfing. There are still balance issues. However, it's about ten times as balanced as it was before.

EDIT: I realized you'll skim over this post and yell at things that aren't there. I meant that the game as it is now is "cat-and-mouse". I figured my second post on that wouldn't clear it up as much, so stating it out here will just clear up a bit of the fog you look at as you read. Read more carefully from now on, and try to think about what people say instead of twisting their words unknowingly.
END EDIT

And the whole point is a cat-and-mouse game, as Ubi said so themselves. The tazer is an example of this. You get too close to the cat, you get clawed. The spies aren't supposed to give the mercs much of a fight, the spies aren't supposed to have any easy way to kill mercs, the spies aren't supposed to SS+Grab.

And because you read my posts as fast as you type, I have to go through and correct you on stuff you misunderstood. I never said people run around at unrealistic speeds. I said the game would work as Mario Party if they did, but you read it at 100 mph and yelled at me for something I didn't say.

Now, a few other things. Yes, any game can be tactical. Pong is tactical. But to be classified as a "tactical" game the planning and techniques have to be a big part of the gameplay. And your precious little necksnap didn't get nerfed. An exploit that involved necksnap got nerfed, but the necksnap (as it's supposed to be used) didn't get touched.

You ignore my pleas for something that is legible yet again, and prove to read as fast as you type. Clean it up already.

[This message was edited by Warmaster129 on Thu May 20 2004 at 02:58 PM.]

[TacoLaMmY]

I think you should play Gandalf & McPimp, Colevant and Bebop, I think you'd be impressed by their spy game, they make it work quite well http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We still need a game though...

[Colevant]

how was ss+grab a exploit? in any world it would seem that they would always fit perfect together. the merc is done shocking , ur behind him, why not snap his neck?
and how is a spy with no defense balanced? when ur only option is to run away. a balanced game would put up a fight against a merc, make him earn his win. but wait, wasnt that what it was like last patch. where both teams had to earn their wins, cuase either team could actually affect the other.
i think u need to look up the def of balanced.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[XyZspineZyX]

Erm, no. The whole purpose of necksnaps was to reward those who can sneak up on a merc. Something that turns it into a "War of the Taps" wasn't the intended purpose.
And yes, I can affect the other team as a spy and when while I'm at it. Why? because I'm actually quite aggressive, compared to some. I'll drop on a merc any time I get a chance. I don't use some unbeatable tactic, I just jump down there, tag him, and run to the nearest ND133. A perfect spy wouldn't have to use defensive tactics.

And somebody take over for me while I'm gone the rest of the night. I don't want him kicking me while I'm down too much.

[This message was edited by Warmaster129 on Thu May 20 2004 at 03:38 PM.]

[TacoLaMmY]

LoL, trying to debate with Colevant is like trying to explain to an autistic child why it shouldn't bite its hands to hamburger meat.

I thought we already established he's a
http://www.columbian.com/outerlimits/troll.jpg
and here on the splinter cell forums, we should not feed the
http://home.socal.rr.com/gbaker/troll.jpg 's.

[Colevant]

and taco is a hypocrite cuase he doesnt reply with anything usefull but something about how he hates someone else. so hey troll, stfu if u got nothing usefull to say.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[TacoLaMmY]

But I can spell http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ViciousBebop99]

okay....i think the point everyone is conflicted about is what is the purpose of a spy. Not what the creaters wanted, or as i should say what you think the creators wanted...because we dont really know. Would you...a spy go in and try to be stealthy?? Yes. Would you a spy when confronted with an enemy in your face run away and let him alert the whole base to your presence? No. Thats where everyone is up in a tizzy about. Its not about what the object of the game is its about the fact that Spies no longer have that option of disabling a merc. Its gone so now the Spy is forced to run and get shot at along the way. I am sorry but thats not how a spy should be. Thats all I am saying.

We all agree that agro mercs were a problem to the newbie coming into the game, but taking away all spy options for defence against an opponent in your face is just plain foolish. The government dont train them that way, so why should the game be that way? Isn't Tom Clancy known for his realism. Doesnt Sam Fisher have a Pistol even? Come on everyone its obvious to me and the few others that have an open mind that the spies need something.

So, stop calling everyone a noob and just agree that spies are super weak and that non of us know how the game is meant to be played.

The final word brought to you by a much calmer BebopVicious

[Ruzhyo666]

Taco: LMFAO!!!

Anyways, there are many arguements you anti-1.2 guys give that 1.2 sucks. All of them are ****.

Anti-1.2 Former aggro spy: But death match made the game fun!
Me: Only to you it did, but that is because you are a fool. Im looking at the cd case right now, and it says "A New Dawn of Stealth Action" not "A button mashing fest where your ping determines your fate." If UBI thought the people wanted death match, UBI would give them death match, but they were smarter than that. The 1.2 patch truely makes this game live up to it's claim of "A New Dawn of Stealth Action," and quite frankly, It could barely be any better.

Anti-1.2 Former aggro spy: But now the mercs win too much! I mean they have guns and tazers! What is a spy to do?
Me: I don't blame you for losing so much as spy. You probibly used things like ss+cam, ss+grab, and double jump so much that you lacked in REAL skills required for a good spy. If you are discovered, use smokes or flashes to cover your escape and go for another ND. If you are lucky, you can get there quick enough to catch him off gaurd. Spys have the stealth advantage AND a speed advantage. Know when exactly to use both and you will win a lot more often. Try to keep the edge on the mercs with the gadgets provided to you. The sticky cams, spy bullets, and alarm snares. Use them effectively and you can leave the merc saying "wtf, how?!?" into his mic while his buddy replies "I dunno man! I dunno!" It's a great feeling, you just need the skills to pull it off.

Anti-1.2 Former aggro spy: But what about camping mercs? No ss+cam means no way for me to win http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Me: Go for another ND. If they are camping then that is the perfect opportunity. If there are only 2 NDs left, one for each of them, then make a diversion or lure them into a sticky cam. Once again, you have a lot of gadgets to handle situations like this.

Anti-1.2 Former aggro spy: Mercs have guns! I should be able to kill them with the ss+grab!
Me: No you shouldn't, fool. When a good spy sticky shocks some one, it means he is either A: Going to run to another ND afterwards or B: Keeping the merc of his buddy or his modem while a decontamination is in place or C: Creating a diversion. If you sticky shock some one for any other reason, then I am sorry my friend, but you are too great at this game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[Ruzhyo666]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ViciousBebop99:
okay....i think the point everyone is conflicted about is what is the purpose of a spy. Not what the creaters wanted, or as i should say what you think the creators wanted...because we dont really know. Would you...a spy go in and try to be stealthy?? Yes. Would you a spy when confronted with an enemy in your face run away and let him alert the whole base to your presence? No. Thats where everyone is up in a tizzy about. Its not about what the object of the game is its about the fact that Spies no longer have that option of disabling a merc. Its gone so now the Spy is forced to run and get shot at along the way. I am sorry but thats not how a spy should be. Thats all I am saying.

We all agree that agro mercs were a problem to the newbie coming into the game, but taking away all spy options for defence against an opponent in your face is just plain foolish. The government dont train them that way, so why should the game be that way? Isn't Tom Clancy known for his realism. Doesnt Sam Fisher have a Pistol even? Come on everyone its obvious to me and the few others that have an open mind that the spies need something.

So, stop calling everyone a noob and just agree that spies are super weak and that non of us know how the game is meant to be played.

The final word brought to you by a much calmer BebopVicious<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We know exactly what the developers want. They took out SS+grab and SS+cam right? What more proof do you want that they want you to use some stealth instead?

I agree the game isn't realistic. But its the funnest Tom Clancy game yet, and we have many slightly unrealistic factors to thank for that.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[ViciousBebop99]

You dont know what they want...whats here today might be gone tomorrow. Look at 1.1. Is that what they wanted? They changed it didnt they. What about the next patch. They might do something then and flip the whole game around again. I mean come on Ruzhy dont be a smart ***. You have no idea what they intend to do. Lastly i gaurantee you that the spies will get one of 2 things back in the next patch. Either the Sticky-Cam or Smoke-Grab. Because its still not balanced and games have finite life spans, if they want this one to have a long one like CS or Sof2(two of the longest running titles to date, besides starcraft and Warcraft of course) They will give the spies something back...it might not be what you think but it will be a big difference and you complaining *****es before will complain again.

[TacoLaMmY]

You can argue all you want that the changes they made to 1.2 supposedly random and unwarranted. At the end of the day what matters is what the devs do to the game. And they sided with us. This isn't your game, its theirs, and they had the final say on it. I really don't know if its a learning disability that would make you think them taking out the ss-cam and the ss-grab on a whim would be a random thing done mainly because of the voice of the community, especially since the xbox has been this way since day one, but if you're arguing that the devs are changing things willy nilly for the sake of doing it, you really aren't debating based on any intelligence or thought you might have put into your argument, you're trying to claw at what you think would make the game more fun for you, except its not the same ideal that the devs have in mind. Why do you persist in thinking in a manner which is so obviously not the reality of the situation?

[Ruzhyo666]

Look at the xbox version. They had it so the ss+cam and ss+grab were impossible from the start. The PC version did not include these features because they were ACCIDENTLY left out, and were not realized until 1.1 was out. They didn't some how MAKE the ss+cam and ss+grab possibile because they intended gameplay to be that way, only a complete moron would believe that (I believe even YOU know that is not the way it was). Why would UBI intend on turning a masterpiece of a stealth action strategy game into a button mashing contest? Think about what you are saying and you will realize how stupid it is.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[TacoLaMmY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ruzhyo666:
The PC version did not include these features because they were ACCIDENTLY left out, and were not realized until 1.1 was out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, because UBI has such utter **** for public relations on the forums, we'll probably never get a statement on here as to what the official thing was, but obviously you can make certain core assumptions about how the xbox has been played since day one when taking into consideration that status of the ss-cam & ss-grab. It would just be nice for them to confirm their intentions on the matter.

[Ruzhyo666]

I believe it's common sense. Xbox had it like this way from the beginning. This means they actualy had to go out of their way to make it impossible on the xbox, but forgot to, or encountered a glitch with the system, on PC. Of course it could be the other way around (that they programmed it so that it was possible on PC, but a programming error made it impossible on xbox), but that is extordinarily unlikely (programming-wise). Another possibility is that they intentionally included the ss+cam and ss+grab to balance the game for spies, but that goes against everything they created SC:PT for, and the 1.2 patch has gotten rid of the ss+cam and ss+grab, so this final theory is unlikely, making my assumption that the fact that the ss+cam and ss+grab were possible on the PC version were possible because of programming faults.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[ViciousBebop99]

Okay maybe you guys can't read...i simply said you dont know what they want. This game will get patched again, and it will never be like the XBox! Because its a console and thus limited by controlers and we all know that controllers are no match for Keyboard and Mouse. So, stop saying its like that on the Xbox...then go play Xbox! Jesus Christ, I have never seen more people not understand that games are different from console to console. The button configuration, the ease of movements that are not possible on Consoles!! They will patch this again, and it won't be just like the Xbox. So, what then?? Are you all going to say...hum i guess i was wrong? I bet you wont....i bet you all say, well its pc and thats Xbox....thats why!....i am surrounded by fools.

[Ruzhyo666]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ViciousBebop99:
i am surrounded by fools.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, ignorance IS bliss isn't it? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif. I envy your ignorance, really, I do. Intelligence is such a curse, having to explain things to the "lesser individuals" (hint hint). I much rather be completely wrong and be too dumb to know it like SOME PEOPLE I argue with http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

I realize the xbox has different controls, but really this game isn't about how fast you can aim (which is the only advantage mouse and keyboard has over the controller, speed of aiming), it depends more so on strategy and other related skills. If ubi was going to balance the pc version to be more like the xbox, they would probibly just widen the rifle's spread or decrease it's damage slightly to emulate the slightly increase in difficulty of aiming on the xbox, not do something foolish like bring back the ss+cam and ss+grab. Get a clue! If they do, sure, I'll admit they were wrong. But they never will, so hey I have little to worry about http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[TacoLaMmY]

Vicious...just...what the hell is wrong with you? Seriously, how old are you? I want to forgive this if you're a bratty 12-14 year old, and then at least I'll know not to take anything you say seriously, because someone our own age should know better, please, please tell me you're underage.

You should know damn well when we say its like the xbox we're specifically referring to the ss-grab and ss-cam being impossible, did you just not grab that? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you? Do you just argue to argue when someone is making themself as clear as possible?

You don't deserve contact with other human beings.

[XyZspineZyX]

They want exactly what they put on the very box you bought this game in. "New dawn of stealth action", not "New dawn of Mario Party". They put what they wanted on each and every thing they sold. And you ignored them. No, my friend, YOU are the one that does not know what they want.

And oh yes, games differ from console to console so much that the entire purpose of the game changes! I heard that SCPT MP for the PS2 will actually be an addon pack for The Sims, where Spies go to work everyday to fight terrorism and keeping fit at the same time. Mercs can lounge around and eat pizza or lift weights while the spies aren't around!

Hell yeah a game will differ from platform to platform (A PC isn't a console, buddy.) but having the entire purpose of the game changed isn't what happens. A few things turn up different of course, but a port of UT2004 for the XBOX wouldn't turn into a "Whack-a-Mole" game with voles just because of a platform switch. You are lying to us, as you are lying to yourself. Ubi told us what they want. Ubi told everybody what they wanted. They wanted stealth. These exploits take away any incentive to be stealthy. Ubisoft aren't idiots. They know when something is bad for stealth, and they nerf it. So 3SC and SSG got nerfed. Is there any way to put it any clearer to you? You are the fool, seeing yourself as a genius among idiocy. You are sadly mistaken.

And no, we won't say your little thing about platforms there. What will we say?
Well it's an exploit and those get nerfed... that's why!

[Colevant]

they claim the know what ubisoft wants. they also have to resort to saying the spell better and name calling becuase they know they are wrong. they want this game real, yet they want invuln times. they want it very very easy for 1 side, and hard for another. yet all we want is a balanced fun game. wow, we are the ones that dont know what we want huh...

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Ruzhyo666]

Colvent, I am all for this game being balanced. But the ss+cam and ss+grab are AGAINST good balance. The game is balanced as it is, spies just require a little more skill than mercs. Mercs require a rather limited amount of skill, but the mercs, as programmed into the game, are limited as well. Where as a team of spies cannot be stopped given they have the skills. It's a different kind of balanced. You contradict your self to an extreme extent. If ss+grab and ss+cam was brought back, this game would tip very much in favor of the spies, not to mention go against what is printed on the cd case, on the game's box, and in the game's manual.

We have been patient with you and Viscious and the hordes of former aggro spies complaining they cannot preform their exploits anymore. Please do not be so immature as to say we resort to name calling and pointing out your spelling/grammar just because we are wrong when 1. We did not start the name calling. 2. Your spelling and grammar skills are in fact TERRIBLE and 3. You have no proof nor any evidence nor at least any logical reason leading to the possibility that we may be wrong.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[XyZspineZyX]

So the tagline (which had something to do with stealth, did it not?) stamped on EVERY FRIGGING SCPT BOX OUT THERE has nothing to do with what Ubisoft wants? Hello? Anybody home? I'd like to borrow a cup of logic, are you out?

And no, the "spell better" pleas had nothing to do with this. We didn't "resort" to them as you have to resort to ignoring most of our posts. We don't want it real. You, with your little band of aggro-*****s (The aggro having nothing to do with amount of stealth, it's just that "*****" by itself is too general) is the side that wants it real. We are the ones that want it fun while your little side wants live rounds for the spies 'cause it would be more realistic. YOU want it very easy for one side and hard for the other. YOU want unbeatable tactics for spies. YOU want something that counteracts the very purpose of the game. And yeah, you are the ones that ignored what Ubi meant with every word they said, every preview, news release, and movie that suggested stealth, instead of a tactic that removes the incentive for stealth.

You are the ones lying to yourselves. You claim to want a fair and balanced game while supporting unbeatable exploits. I feel sorry for anybody who could be so hypocritical.

[Colevant]

i bet i would stomp warmaster in any game.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[XyZspineZyX]

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif
For all I know Colevant is a walking death machine as a merc and a spy that you never see.

Know what?

None of that matters in this little debate. You're the one resorting to not answering. You completely ignore my point about what Ubi thinks being stamped on every SCPT box. Why? Is my point bulletproof? Please don't answer, my ego is inflated enough as it is.

Colevant, you do realize what you did is basically the equivalent of shouting "my daddy can whip your daddy!" in a debate over the morality of abortion.

So, Colevant. You've proved that you have no way to contribute to a civilized debate as
1. You choose not to respond to any points you can't bend around somehow.
2. You stick to your points after being repeatedly proven wrong.
3. You simply respond with a "I'm better at _____ than you" whenever people are waiting for a response you won't give.
4. You can come up with no new points for your side to argue with. All you've said for 6 pages is "spies need defense" and "I'm better at SCPT than you".
5. You've shown you skim over posts so you can yell at contradictions that aren't there.
----
and so on. You may very well be a walking death machine, but until you actually try to argue for your side by disproving the other side's points ("i bet i would stomp warmaster in any game." does nothing to argue against Ubi's thoughts being stamped on everything) and you refuse to make your posts readable, you aren't serious. Colevant, until you realize that how good you may be has nothing to do with how right or wrong you are, you have nothing to contribute to this forum. Please leave.

And yes, I realize he's probably a troll. But I need some random moron to dump my anger onto, and Colevant fits that role nicely.

[killgod18]

what in the hell is with some of you people

we got 70% of the guys making fun of players (more of less just Colevant) by showing off that they are more intelligent so therefore they are correct?

besides his rambling about 3sc, he wants the game to work so so that you have a fair chance when playin either side. WE ALL KNOW that its rather simple to win as a MERC and more difficult to win as a spy, whats wrong with that?.....why make him feel inferior because you dont like his idea? going on with your proper grammar and more intelligent use of language.

Im surprised he even comes to these boards, we should be discussing things about the game, not making some members feel inadequate and bashing down suggestions and ideas.

Warmaster if you are so intelligent yourself, and can sit here with your YOU this and YOU that ****, try this one out. Ever come to the realization that he just wants equal opportunity on each side for this game, and with the 3sc methods, thats what he had? Im sorry if he's younger and not as wise as you or some others here to come up with brilliant ideas, but if you look deep at the point he is trying to make, there is nothing wrong with it, other than he doesnt know any other way than 3sc to have an equal game for him. He had a game that was fair for him on both sides, and lost that, so its right for you and others to make him feel inadequate, stupid and unweclome?

peace
kg

[killgod18]

warmaster.....funny how i posted the second after you ....YET again, bashed him.

Do you own these forums?......WHO ARE YOU to tell someone to leave?

Your more intelligent then him, SO WHAT? Want a medal? Gee Your so quick and smart to come up with all those flashy points you deserve a damn nobel prize!

Just leave the kid alone, you sound just as stupid for typing all that out, because he replied with a childish response, grow up and why dont you go somewhere else, where people like to be picked on and mistreated for being younger and less intelligent.

peace
kg

[killgod18]

and just to clarify........i am AGAINST 3SC and ENJOY THE GAME.

The kind of bull**** that goes on in these forums is disgusting, this is a gaming community there is no room for it.

peace
kg

[Ruzhyo666]

Actually, killgod, you replied 13 minutes after warmaster did.

And they aren't just insulting colvent because of his lack of intillect or maturity. You must understand it is very very difficult to get a point across to some one like that, let a lone get them to reply in a mature manner. It get's very frusterating. Colvent may want to equalize the game for HIM, but he as well as you has to realize that it is not all about him. We are simply trying to tell him such things, but he refuses to listen, like a child. He has been making insults to our intelligence long before we made insults to his. I have seen a few people argue that 1.2 was bad and be very mature about it, and they were treated justly. If colvent can behave himself in a mature manner, he wont be treated like a child and insulted so much. Hell, maybe I would even take some of his arguements into consideration. But he has done nothing of the sort. That is the way the world works my friend, not just the forums.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[XyZspineZyX]

Actually, killgod, I'm pretty average as to how intelligent I am. You might have been fooled by the flashy words, but that's kind of a result of being raised by parents that are that smart.

The whole reason I'm in this is a sudden shortage of posts in the debate section of another forum I go to. I needed somewhere where I could dump my opinions onto somebody, and an argument over 1.2 flew into my face.

The reason I'm frustrated with him is he refuses to argue in a way that would actually make his points go across.

I know I went overboard with the namecalling at the end and the flashy numbers, but I'm used to debate opponents that actually take my points into consideration and fire back with their own points. Basically, I was spoiled with good debate partners over in the other forum I go to. You could probably realize that from my answers, probably.

...I called him moron didn't I? ****. But hey, I had just gotten back from a 3 hour concert at school (Actually a 90 minute one done twice) and had been dealing with Colevant's annoying pick'n'choose way of answering all day long. You try arguing with Colevant. Take my word for it: it isn't easy or sane.

[Colevant]

i like how people seem to think they can judge how smart u are by how many typos or the way u make ur sentences on this forum. ya, thats a real way to judge someone huh....
the game inst balanced, never once have i defended ss+cam, yet u all say i do. And the only valid points yall can come up with is a stamp that says "new stealth action in a game."
well, whats not stealthy about hiding in a corner, shooting a unsuspecting merc with a ss, then running up behind him for a grab? if he didnt know it was coming, its stealthy huh????
im probably older than most of u posting in here, and yet thats all u can come up with to try and prove me wrong, is that i am un-intelligent cuase i spell you "u". i think its some of u kids that need to grow up and see there is more than just black and white.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Colevant]

and ya what if i want the game balanced for me. if i can win as a spy within 3 minutes of a game cuase the mercs still have no damn skill. i find myself havig to go agro just so i can use up my 10 minutes of the map. i think its boring playing as a spy for 3 minutes then being a merc for 10 becuase the spies im playing against cant get past me and always end up spawn camping in their spawn. i know im not the one who needs to get better at this game, cuase i have played plenty of people to beable to tell im not the bad one. i rarely used the ss_cam unless i was nueting a ND, then if i saw a merc, i shot it at the wall and gassed him. im saying take the stupid "4 second god mode" off the mercs who already have guns, and let them have something to fear other than a fleaing spy.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[datboysteve]

Straight up... i think the whole patch is gay. Yeah its about stealth with spies, but now we are going up against cyber mercs. you shock them, not even smoke nades slow them down. since they have that 3 sec invinciblility after just getting shocked, damn i wish that a merc tazer shocked a spy and the spy is invicincible till after he gets up and runs. omfg. you shoot merc, surround his area with smoke nades, and he walks out without getting slowed down, thru the smoke, and keeps coming. all yall had to do to maybe make it fair, is take the double head stomp off spies, to where the mercs are invincible for three secs. not a damn sticky shock. and yeah yeah yeah, i know spies are supposed to be sneaky, but from what i remember, on the actual game playing as sam fisher, you had to be stealthy as hell. but if you got into some ****, you could murder folks.(on certain missions). i know a spy wasnt trained to be a sneaky *****, they are train killers just as much mercs. they are freakin ninjas, seriously. last time i checked ninjas kicked ***. the only reason they mafe this gay patch is cause ***s, who get ownt by spies, when they are mercs, cry and cry and cry and cry on these ****in forums about it. play the single player and actually see what a spy does. people just do not like dying as a merc against a spy with non lethal weapons, but his hands. and for a while before this patch, games on splinter started getting interesting cause people actually got used to it and would have nice fun games. without the merc ****. how about this give spies, silent sticky cams that can spit out 2 or 3 clouds. give them a gun or something. cause now its sneaky im a spy, time to hack, oh **** merc, shock, RUN!!!, tazer dead. same ****. thats if im playing decent people. i at least wanna be able to **** up a merc on my out that *****, then shock him and he is invincible spammin his damn tazer. what can i do, not a damn thing but run, droppin smokes while this dude is chasing me through it with out slowing down, tazer ready. i dont know but i hate the game now and until they level **** out equally for both sides, i aint playing the ****. this is Splinter Cell not Spy Killer.

[kingsadist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colevant:
and ya what if i want the game balanced for me. if i can win as a spy within 3 minutes of a game cuase the mercs still have no damn skill. i find myself havig to go agro just so i can use up my 10 minutes of the map. i think its boring playing as a spy for 3 minutes then being a merc for 10 becuase the spies im playing against cant get past me and always end up spawn camping in their spawn. i know im not the one who needs to get better at this game, cuase i have played plenty of people to beable to tell im not the bad one. i rarely used the ss_cam unless i was nueting a ND, then if i saw a merc, i shot it at the wall and gassed him. im saying take the stupid "4 second god mode" off the mercs who already have guns, and let them have something to fear other than a fleaing spy.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They do. They have SS, gas/chaff/flash-nades, gas-cameras, spybullets, headjumping, necksnapping and a near invisible enemy to worry about.
The roles were clearly set when this MP mode was invented: Spy goes after ND133. Merc protects ND133. Merc has to kill spy to defend, so spy fears merc and avoids him.
Before the patch, spies would rather seek mercs out and kill them, which required no skill, instead of showing talent.
Now, they have to, or they just waste time.

[kingsadist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by datboysteve:
Straight up... i think the whole patch is gay. Yeah its about stealth with spies, but now we are going up against cyber mercs. you shock them, not even smoke nades slow them down. since they have that 3 sec invinciblility after just getting shocked, damn i wish that a merc tazer shocked a spy and the spy is invicincible till after he gets up and runs. omfg. you shoot merc, surround his area with smoke nades, and he walks out without getting slowed down, thru the smoke, and keeps coming. all yall had to do to maybe make it fair, is take the double head stomp off spies, to where the mercs are invincible for three secs. not a damn sticky shock. and yeah yeah yeah, i know spies are supposed to be sneaky, but from what i remember, on the actual game playing as sam fisher, you had to be stealthy as hell. but if you got into some ****, you could murder folks.(on certain missions). i know a spy wasnt trained to be a sneaky *****, they are train killers just as much mercs. they are freakin ninjas, seriously. last time i checked ninjas kicked ***. the only reason they mafe this gay patch is cause ***s, who get ownt by spies, when they are mercs, cry and cry and cry and cry on these ****in forums about it. play the single player and actually see what a spy does. people just do not like dying as a merc against a spy with non lethal weapons, but his hands. and for a while before this patch, games on splinter started getting interesting cause people actually got used to it and would have nice fun games. without the merc ****. how about this give spies, silent sticky cams that can spit out 2 or 3 clouds. give them a gun or something. cause now its sneaky im a spy, time to hack, oh **** merc, shock, RUN!!!, tazer dead. same ****. thats if im playing decent people. i at least wanna be able to **** up a merc on my out that *****, then shock him and he is invincible spammin his damn tazer. what can i do, not a damn thing but run, droppin smokes while this dude is chasing me through it with out slowing down, tazer ready. i dont know but i hate the game now and until they level **** out equally for both sides, i aint playing the ****. this is Splinter Cell not Spy Killer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What good would it do to make a spy invincible till after he gets up? Merc waits till spy stands, then shoots him. Or places mine next to him. No help there.

Then comparing the MP mode to SP: probably the most pointless thing one can do. Yes, you could murder people, and so can you in MP. That you arent able to with 1.2, is because you lack the real skill to do it.

As for spies being trained killers, I cant think where you got that from. They are trained to handle any situation, within reason. Murdering the enemy is never the main plan; eluding him is. And you have got the wrong idea about ninjas and spies being ninjas, my friend.
That you would rather choose the easy path by killing blindly, is your decision. You went to far, and the consequences have slapped you in the face. If you want to keep shocking and snapping, back to 1.1 you go.

Want a real challenge? Finish the SP mode with a minimum of kills and no alerts. See how well you handle that, 'ninja'.

No, we dont like dying at the hands of unskilled individuals. If all the games turned into killing marathons, what you call 'interesting', then complaining was unavoidable. Want to keep doing stealthy kills? Go play Manhunt or something...

You ideas to make the game 'interesting', i.e. easy for the dexterously handicapped, are some of the worst.

If you are having trouble completing a neutralisation, use more teamwork, gas off the entrypoints and DONT ENGAGE. Take out the 'shock' part and run as soon as you see him; gives you a vital headstart of two seconds and saves you from tazering.
Its only logical merc know your position; they do get a warning that there is a decontamination going on. That you lack the skills to evade means youd be better of playing only on deathmatch servers.

The game is equal for both sides, for stealthy gameplay. Merc can still lose with ease if they are being confused, distracted and led around in circles by the spy. You seem to have a few things left to learn...

No, its not Spy Killer, but its not Merc Slaughterer either. The stealthier you play, the more it resembles Splinter Cell; instead of one man outsneaking a whole army of enemies, its two men outsneaking to mobile elite troops. Sounds fair to me.

[killgod18]

hey i didnt see on the box that it has a requirement for players to be good gamers to win.

in colevant and almost all new players, and some of the veteran players cases, they are rarely winning as spies.

you guys are claimin that those players are all about themselves....when its more than that....its a WHOLE group of players, i only find that the mainly the "better" players play here, which is all fine and well. But this game isnt directed for you guys either, ITS FOR EVERYONE, so keep that in mind when they are upset because they cannot win.

[datboysteve]

see dude heres, something else. you are more than likely one of those people i have played against in the past and ownt. i hack. i hacked all computers in 10 min with a 1 min 30 handicap. i dont have to kill a merc to win. everyone plays on newb skill level. 10 sec hack. pfft plz. anyways, people like you, are the mercs that quit cause i will knock you out, hack. youll get up and get ownt again. and yall already have invinciblity against stick shocks and spy cams, when you get knocked out already. for like 4 or 5 secs. now you need a 3 sec invulnerable time. see newbnewbnewbs. i have never played splinter till this online one came out. and i got people *****ing at me that played it since it was on console. it doesnt sound like yall want the game to be more stealthy, it sounds like people getting raped cause they suck and wanting the whole game to get changed around to their needs. people like you make games not fun. if i am gonna hack an ND, and a merc is standing next to it. i am not waiting, i am gonna snap your neck, or jump on you, and hack that sum*****. i aint gonna sneak around with *** mercs campin next to the damn ****, and not do anything. i am gonna take you out. why should i let a merc live. im on a mission, and im gonna accomplish it, even if i have to kill to do it. hey i gotta a new idea for mercs, lets give them straight up spy vision. to where you can see the whole stage lit up. no hidin haha..... you dont understand what im trying to say, was there a problem with the gameplay before. no. it was more equal than now.
oh your so cool, beat the game on hard. woopee, wanna cookie. like i said, i own on any game mode. oh game bots, hard. you know what they are gonna do. now people, thats fun. unpredictable.
if you die from newbs, than you suck. i never ever let anyone detect me, unless i wanna be detected. i own, do you. i dont need to shock grab anyone. ill just straight up grab you.

like i said all that **** is besides the point, you taze a merc, run off. here they come. drop a smoke, they dont choke and move slower, like they used to, they run through it like it aint ****. and can steady chase a spy, until dead or until you run like a mile and camp. its stupid. but i guess you think thats fair since you probably dont get ***** and play that **** all day. i play this **** for an hour a day, and still good at it. who sucks me or you. i really wonder how many times you posted on here crying about people like me owning you straight up. how do you win on tis game, hmmm, for spies, hackin all computers without dyng, or eliminate the opposing force. why do they have these options. maybe because people who play this ****ing game can have actual strategy. if i got five minutes left, and mercs are campin Nd's im gonna kill them. and win. hate losing like that huh ****er. cause its just as gay as a spy killing mercs till they have no lives, as a merc sitting in the same ****ing spot till times up.

as a matter of fact, why dont you cry to ubi about the merc campin for me too. have them make a mod to where if the merc isnt patrollin and steady moving for a certain amount of time, their heads should explode.

are mercs supposed to be stealthy? hell no they are all lit up with ****.

[poseyjmac]

dont be so modest, give yourself a little credit, man http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

[XyZspineZyX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colevant:
i like how people seem to think they can judge how smart u are by how many typos or the way u make ur sentences on this forum. ya, thats a real way to judge someone huh....
the game inst balanced, never once have i defended ss+cam, yet u all say i do. And the only valid points yall can come up with is a stamp that says "new stealth action in a game."
well, whats not stealthy about hiding in a corner, shooting a unsuspecting merc with a ss, then running up behind him for a grab? if he didnt know it was coming, its stealthy huh????
im probably older than most of u posting in here, and yet thats all u can come up with to try and prove me wrong, is that i am un-intelligent cuase i spell you "u". i think its some of u kids that need to grow up and see there is more than just black and white.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never think about how smart you are by your grammar. However, as long as you type like that, you'll SOUND like a 4 year old, but I would never think of you as actually being a 4 year old.

And finally you answer the thing about the box. Flawed logic in your answer, but at least you answered it.

Let me answer you this way: of course you can be stealthy and use SSGrab. However, it takes away any incentive to be stealthy.

Let me use a metaphor: Say I open a factory that I bill as "The most productive and effecient factory to date". When it opens I tell the workers I will pay the same no matter how much they slack off. Will they all work hard? Hell no! Maybe a few of them with a conscience will, but most of them will sit around eating stuff.

Let me use reality: Say I develop a game that I bill as "The New Dawn of Stealth Action". When it's released I tell the players they can use tactics that kill any need for stealth. Will they all use stealth? Hell no! Maybe a few of them will get what the game is about and play mostly stealth, but most of them will run around killing the enemy.

Colevant, you seem to think that a tactic that relies on tapping obsessively and in which ping decides your fate has any place at all in a stealth game. You are very mistaken. And please, I've seen you call people idiots for not agreeing with you on this. Plus, if somebody on your side calls pro-1.2 players "***s that i want to kill die die die" (not a real quote, but close enough to what they say) do you accuse them of seeing in black and white? Fix your own side before you attack mine.

And datboysteve, I had to read that more than a few times to get whether you're for or against 1.2. After reading your post, I find you seeing in black and white more than anybody else here (Colevant probably won't comment on that. So, if out of nowhere I get shocked and I start moving again in a cloud of knockout gas, instantly knocking me out, I'm a "newb"? Something I have no control over at all makes me a "newb"?
That's like, say, in a game where everybody gets a number from 1 to a billion randomly then sits around with their number (nothing else, just the number which you have no control over) you call somebody a "newb" for having a low number. Wow, I never knew that if the SSG'er is host I instantly become a "newb" for having a ping slightly too high to get away! Yes, and if I host I'm instantly a "1337 pro haxxor"! I never knew flawed logic could be so fun!

EDIT: And how old are you, anyway, Colevant? You do know I meet people one and a half times my age with half my maturity on the internet, don't you? Since when do we go by the ancient custom "respect your elders"?

[Colevant]

first off, why should i show maturity on a internet that is 95% porn. hehehe
ok, now for questions no one has answered with anything reasonable except, i suck as a merc and really really need it. question is.... why invuln times? any other game, god mode is considered a hack, yet yall imbrace this 4 second god mode every time somoene is shocked like its a good thing. and then yall constantly go off saying almost anything a spy does to u when ur a merc as being cheap. its like when people said the AWP was cheap in cs. well, stop going to the sniper and he will stop shooting you. if ur a merc, stay moving if the spies like to shock u, a moving target in this game can be diffucult to hit, and once a spy has shot, he should be visable to u, if ur a good merc...
thats the problem though, no one went on to become a good merc, they just asked ubisoft for a crutch.
and i fail to see how my typing is immature. is it cuase i spell u instead of you? or is it becuase i dont constantly poke fun of others or say things i dont know about them?

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[XyZspineZyX]

And who says that the presence of SSGrab isn't a crutch either? If the spy is host, there's no way to get out of it. He aims without being seen, and as I tap for my life (not the way the game was supposed to be played, obviously) but in the end my inferior ping is my downfall. This happens 4-6 times, and I'm out of the game. When a spy drops on me, tags me, runs to the nearest ND133, drops on me as I rush in the room, disables the rest of the ND133 and leaves: not cheap. He owned me and I deserved it, as he planned it, executed it perfectly, and it required a certain amount of skill. But when somebody plays in a way that requires 0% skill and 100% ping and doesn't plan it out ("oh theres a merc" ZAP'N'SNAP "now what the hells an nd133") then you know somethings wrong when he's winning. When something takes skill and not ping, it's not cheap. You seem to think that a tactic that's unbeatable when you're host (Some of us can't host, FYI.) that requires no skill is not cheap.

You seem to be thinking we classify everything that beats us as cheap. Actually, if you examine what we actually say instead of rambling on about those "whiners", you'll find that we classify something that beats us with no skill as cheap. SSGrab takes no skill. Therefore it is cheap.

If a game has some ultimate weapon on a deathmatch map, (think some UT game or whatever) and some people randomly spawn right next to it, then it would be cheap for it to be right there. But if you have to fight through hellish monsters to get to it, then *GASP* it's not cheap! Why? Because it actually takes an ounce of skill to pull it off. You are lying to yourself if you think SSGrab takes anything other than a low ping. It takes no skill. Thus, it is cheap.

Now will Ubi please release the next patch to demonstrate that invuln times are intended by Ubi and are there to stay, and that there is more to these forums than arguing with brick walls.

EDIT: And you should show maturity because you're just another 12 year old AOL'er if you don't. Nobody takes you seriously if you don't, everybody gives less (if less is actually possible) consideration to your insane ideas, and nobody will be swayed.

And your maturity issues don't begin and end with your typing. Ignoring my points to instead respond with a "i can stomp u" is far from mature.

I don't poke fun at you. Rather, I have to insult SOMEBODY to let off the frustration of arguing with a brick wall that can't find the shift key. And actually you do say things you don't know about people, specifically their ability to play as mercs.

[This message was edited by Warmaster129 on Fri May 21 2004 at 09:08 PM.]

[Eron]

You know what I think they should do perhaps to even the odds a bit..

Let the spy have a visual audio indicator as well..

hmmm.

Would give him a chance to be more stealthy would it not?

[TacoLaMmY]

Wasn't aware the odds needed any evening, just an overall improvement in spy skill across the community.

[Colevant]

the skill to escaping a ss+grab wasnt all ping, the host didnt always win. im always the host in my games, and i still lost some ss+grabs, cuase people with good pings could beat it, smart people would duck or have their teammate attack me, or they would beable to turn fast. not everything in life can be totally controlled. so why shouldnt there be alittle fear for the mercs. right now they have nothing to fear. and since u all can think what u think ubisoft thinks, this is what i think they may also think. (alot of thinks) spies werent ment to be sneaking monkies. they have training to defend themselves, and im pretty sure they have been trianed to kill and handle hostile situations. and sticky shocking and grabbing them right after seems like a perfectly logical and quick way of doing this. and wouldnt a spy use the best way to stop someone if he could? the mercs should fear the spies just as much as the spies fear the merc. not nowing where they are isnt enough. u should also not know if ur going to stay alive alittle longer. with this new patch, u dont think about dieing from a spy as much, u just keep charging the spy no matter what hes doing (trust me, in every game so far after this patch, no matter how much ur tryn to stop the merc by throwing nades, he just keeps charging unafraid. so stop acting like this was needed. they fixed the problems by giving god mode to mercs, instead of trying something that would have actually made sense. (like using the breath holding)

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Colevant]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TacoLaMmY:
Wasn't aware the odds needed any evening, just an overall improvement in spy skill across the community.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


they didnt? then why before this patch where there like 100 people crying how they kept losing to spies becuase they werent able to kill them, the ones with the lethal guns losing to the ones with out the lethal guns. HA, like a kid with a hand full of putty killing a guy with a knife.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[TacoLaMmY]

I was mostly complaining about spies in 1.1 because noobs who had virtually no stealth skill at all, could come barging right into the nd133, where I knew they'd head to based on how much noise they were making, and they could effectively just sticky shock me, cam gas me, down I go, and disarm the unit. Or they could sticky shock me, run around me like a monkey, and play mario party mashing the spacebar.
No thanks, we like it when spies require skill to play. Pulling a cam-gas or a ss-grab are incredibly easy, and a merc has no say in their outcome. Especially consider how easy it is for a spy to get the initial sticky shock (100% accurate gun, no recoil anyone?), this just doesn't fly. And congrats to ubi for agreeing with us.
Case in point, I don't see ubi changing it back any time soon.

[kingsadist]

"the ones with the lethal guns losing to the ones with out the lethal guns. HA, like a kid with a hand full of putty killing a guy with a knife."

OK, HOLD THAT THOUGHT!
HOLD IT NOW!
That, my dear misunderstood friend, is EXACTLY the problem, and you are treating it as a normal phenomenon. The not-lethal ones, the ones not MEANT to be lethal, being even more lethal than the ones the WERE meant to be lethal. Still following me?

If the non-lethal ones would have a hard time achieving those kills, it would have been okay. Then, there would be no better display of real skill and I would mark it as an achievement. However, it did not take any skill; the flashiest and deadliest of moves were just thrown about all over the place, and the game went out the window.
Now Ubisoft have just dragged it back in, and you dont even thank them. They set the roles again, and you cant seem to accept that, and vent that here.

I hope that using your own words will help you understand our point of view, instead of just stubbornly refusing to actually understand our words, contradicting yourself over and over as a result.
We try to understand your train of thought; the least you could do is understand ours.

[XyZspineZyX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colevant:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TacoLaMmY:
Wasn't aware the odds needed any evening, just an overall improvement in spy skill across the community.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


they didnt? then why before this patch where there like 100 people crying how they kept losing to spies becuase they werent able to kill them, the ones with the lethal guns losing to the ones with out the lethal guns. HA, like a kid with a hand full of putty killing a guy with a knife.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
More like a kid that found an exploit that kills people killing a kid with a gun. If the spies were like a kid with putty, how come you were saying they could defend themselves pre-1.2?

And yeah, the SSG would make the most logical sense in real life. Know what would make even more sense? An entire unit of SEALs, all trained on how to hack the ND133s. REAL LIFE DOES NOT EQUAL BALANCE. SSG does seem the logical tactic they would use, but since when does balance become a lower priority than real life stuff?

And yeah, the SS+SmokeNade was okay with me. Know what? Wasn't our fault it got taken out! Ubi doesn't listen to us. They saw these exploits being *****d, and fixed it. Even if they did listen to us, we wanted cam and grab immunity after shock. NOT SMOKE.

The mercs fear the spies, at least if the spies are good. I drop on mercs any chance I can get. There are few places they are safe from a drop from above. In museum, I drop on one, tag him, run and start neutralizing the Monolith Room ND. When he comes in I drop on him from the monolith. I just killed him in a way that took skill and planning. The mercs fear me a little now, especially if I drop on them more. The mercs shouldn't have to fear a spy with no skill. SSGrab takes ping. You said so yourself.

"and i still lost some ss+grabs, cuase people with good pings could beat it,"

Good pings? As in what, 30? Not everybody lives in a happy fantasy world where everybody has a ping of 20. We have to make do with a 80 ping server sometimes and get grabbed by somebody with no skill. You don't know what the issues of ping are like when you're always host. With you, you always get away as merc, and don't understand what it's like to not be able to.

Let's see... your proposed get-away ideas, none of which work. Ducking... you automatically get knocked out. Teammate... everybody's teammate can traverse a map in 6 seconds, yeah. Spinning... never works.

And you're still on your "u don't know what ubisoft thinks" routine. Yes we know what they think, they told us every step of the way during development. It was to be tactical, as in planning (SSGrab takes no planning) and have stealth on the spy side (SSGrab takes away any need for stealth) and tracking on the merc side (not button tapping). You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Colevant]

wow, then warmaster must work for ubi, cuase he seems to know everything they think and know.
no, im pretty sure they were using ss+grab when they beta tested this for the 5 minutes the did test it. yalls crying got ride of it, thats why it was left when they patched the mercs gun. ss+grab was still in, cuase the smart people knew how to get around it other than to come to the forums and cry that they think its a mario party. people said they have wanted a counter move to the grab, one where u press a button quick enough and counter. well then, that would be a mario party also. thats how games are played, pressing buttons.
u have many ways to kill a spy, only a few to kill a merc. and yall where whining so much about those few ways. i got gassed cam'd earlier today, and guess what, my teammate came over and woke me up. its called teamwork, just mercs dont think to ever help their teammate, they would rather use him as bait and let him die. and thats why yall were getting owned as mercs, cuase even though yall communicated with each other, u didnt actually help each other out.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Xan-99]

colevant when are u going to relise you've lsot, theres no going back. if u want to stay behing and ss+cam feel free to do so. no ones stoping you. all the patch does is let people who dont want to play with it....not play with it. wot a novel idea, if we dont want to ss+camed over and over again....we dont have to...if you want to ss+cam someone and their ok with it...you can do tht....the problem is solved on both sides, everyone has wot they want.

player name: Xan-99
team m8 name: Amnesiac-23
you gotta love the tazor

[XyZspineZyX]

First of all you didn't have to work for ubi to see the interviews, videos, and previews.
So the smart people knew how to get away? Since when does somebody's ping determine their IQ? And yeah, I wasn't one of the ones asking for a counter. I wanted immunity for a few seconds. And yeah, the "mario party" metaphor wasn't about pressing buttons. It's about how mindlessly tapping one button determines your fate. "The new dawn of button tapping".

And yeah, waking them up works on the tiny maps like Warehouse, probably the ones you play. What about museum? In larger maps you'll get owned if you go by the buddy system. Everybody's partner can magically teleport to them, yeah.

Want to know what happened? The smart people realized that Ubi actually meant something with every word they said and that SSG didn't go with the purpose of the game, instead of saying "snap snp funnay hahaheahe" and yelling about "whinrs".

EDIT: And before somebody yells at me for insulting Colevant's intelligence, remember it was simply a way of turning his own words back on him, and not a full-fledged point.

[Colevant]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Warmaster129:
"I wanted immunity for a few seconds. ".


lol, see, u where one of those little babies crying that u wanted god mode to help kill a spy. thats whats ******ed, is that people are siding with people who needed god mode to kill a spy. The IQ part for the merc would be to anticipate the spies reaction, and beable to kill him before he got grabbed. If a spy was in a certain room, i would make sure it was clear before i ran barging in. or i would throw something one way, and go the other, to flush him out without him being able to shoot at me easily. it was called being a smart merc. and that was the problem with all u prepatch whiners. u couldnt figure out how to be strategic with a merc, u thought that the gun would be ur savior , but it isnt, so is ur mind. U say ur so smart, then why couldnt u get around some of the easiest task in the game???? why were u calling out for a god mode if ur so smart and so good? i know i didnt, but hey, im the whiner who wants it fair, not with god mode.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Colevant]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xan-99:
colevant when are u going to relise you've lsot, theres no going back. if u want to stay behing and ss+cam feel free to do so. no ones stoping you. all the patch does is let people who dont want to play with it....not play with it. wot a novel idea, if we dont want to ss+camed over and over again....we dont have to...if you want to ss+cam someone and their ok with it...you can do tht....the problem is solved on both sides, everyone has wot they want.

player name: Xan-99
team m8 name: Amnesiac-23
you gotta love the tazor<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


and here is a perfect example how someone starts to insult me with things i never said.
not once have i defended the use of ss+cam or thought it should have stayed in. if u were actually as smart as u say u are, then u would have noticed my arguements have been about the stupid god mode they put in.
*ding* next flamer pls

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[XyZspineZyX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colevant:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Warmaster129:
"I wanted immunity for a few seconds. ".


lol, see, u where one of those little babies crying that u wanted god mode to help kill a spy. thats whats ******ed, is that people are siding with people who needed god mode to kill a spy. The IQ part for the merc would be to anticipate the spies reaction, and beable to kill him before he got grabbed. If a spy was in a certain room, i would make sure it was clear before i ran barging in. or i would throw something one way, and go the other, to flush him out without him being able to shoot at me easily. it was called being a smart merc. and that was the problem with all u prepatch whiners. u couldnt figure out how to be strategic with a merc, u thought that the gun would be ur savior , but it isnt, so is ur mind. U say ur so smart, then why couldnt u get around some of the easiest task in the game???? why were u calling out for a god mode if ur so smart and so good? i know i didnt, but hey, im the whiner who wants it fair, not with god mode.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah yes, when I barge into a room with guns a' blazing (because you have to shoot at every shadow that could possibly have a spy to be a "smart merc") and end up with my neck broken because of some idiot exploit then yeah, I'm so stupid.

That's the problem with all you postpatch whiners. You couldn't figure out how to be strategic with a spy, you thought that the SSGrab would be your saviour, but it isn't, so is your mind.
You say you're so smart, then why couldn't you go with the simple purpose of the game? Why are you calling out that spies are too hard now if you're so smart and so good? I know I'm not, but hey, I'm the whiner that wants it fair, not Mario Party.

[Xan-99]

convent i wasnt flaming, my idea is for everyone to chill out and go to which ever version they prefer, and if u check my post u'll find i never said anything about u using ss+cam i was applying it in general as an example of one of the main things people complain about. and when exalty did i say i was smart? try reading people post before deciding there are out to personally insult you.
*ding* next illiterate plz (i know tht goes against wot i just said... but wot the hell he did it first)

player name: Xan-99
team m8 name: Amnesiac-23
you gotta love the tazor

[TacoLaMmY]

Colevant is a complete and utter hypocrite, he flames you, expects you not to flame back. He says you shouldn't judge him by his forum posts, but he constantly wagers he can stomp you in-game. He wants you to read through his 'thoughtful' forum posts and examine everything he has to say, he barely even SKIMS through yours. Just completely disregard anything he has to say, treat him like the child he ****ing is.

[Xan-99]

tacolammy there isnt even a point in that, because colenvant isnt alone in wot he thinks, and were trying to havea commity of people who want to play each other. so my diea is that people stick with the patch they like best, then ev eryone that has a problem with stuff like ss+cam can be happiely safe from it in 1.2 and everyone else can go have fun with it if thats what they want.

player name: Xan-99
team m8 name: Amnesiac-23
you gotta love the tazor

[TacoLaMmY]

And I wasn't speaking to you, I was speaking mainly to the people who still have some patience for colevant and think they're going to get a civilized lincoln-douglas debate out of him, when its obviously not the case. Although I admire their efforts to try to speak to him on their level, he'll eventually just debase them down to where he's at and ruin the whole thing.

[Xan-99]

dont just attack colevant, because like i said b4 he's not alone in his ideas, which are no more right or wrong then ures or mine. what he thinks is a balence is different to what i think. and thankfully Ubi have not made the patches complusory so he can play whatever version he likes.

player name: Xan-99
team m8 name: Amnesiac-23
you gotta love the tazor

[kingsadist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colevant:
lol, see, u where one of those little babies crying that u wanted god mode to help kill a spy. thats whats ******ed, is that people are siding with people who needed god mode to kill a spy. The IQ part for the merc would be to anticipate the spies reaction, and beable to kill him before he got grabbed. If a spy was in a certain room, i would make sure it was clear before i ran barging in. or i would throw something one way, and go the other, to flush him out without him being able to shoot at me easily. it was called being a smart merc. and that was the problem with all u prepatch whiners. u couldnt figure out how to be strategic with a merc, u thought that the gun would be ur savior , but it isnt, so is ur mind. U say ur so smart, then why couldnt u get around some of the easiest task in the game???? why were u calling out for a god mode if ur so smart and so good? i know i didnt, but hey, im the whiner who wants it fair, not with god mode.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you can now predict every action a human opponent makes? I thought thats why you play human opponents, because they are unpredictable? Oh well, must be another one of your contradictions.
And how can you make sure a room is clear when you are on the outside of it? Contradiction again. Also, if by 'clear' you mean 'firing random multiple shots and grenades into a room while blindly sweeping the visible parts of it with a torch/lazer until theres no more noise' then you have to stop acting like you are a skilled merc. The unknown is the spies advantage; and wit`h 1.2 people are going to make use of that.
Then you mention diversion and misleading tactics; if you are so good at them, why dont you use these when you are a spy, instead of snapping and headjumping? Contradiction number 3.
If by 'easiest task' you mean escaping uncounterable moves, then yes, we had problems with them. You still havent proved to ANYONE on these forums that you are a capable merc; show us and Ill eat my words. Since you havent yet, I consider you a lying smack-tard. If you want to be judged by skill, show us some.
And you keep mentioning god mode. Never seen any god mode in MP mode...

Colevant, I may be pointing something out that might hurt. No-one here ever said they were smart or smarter than you; that is another wrongful assumption you made. You are the only one who keeps insisting he knows all about everything and is constantly right, when each and every one of your posts is filled with laughable one-liners, blatant contradictions and weak, tired arguments about something that you cant do anything about.

Xan-99, Colevant is the only one who repeatedly attacks and insults everyone who is not in total agreement with what he sais; he acts like the childish and immoral spokesperson of the anti-1.2 minority. Although he is annoying, I dont think anyone has anything to fear from a spokesperson like that.

[Colevant]

first off king, ur wrong again. do u ready anything or do u just post in random topics? read the post others have used. and u will see what they mean, if not , ur not so bright.
2nd, u can predict people by thinking what they might do, and go off that. if u dont know that either, ur not so bright.
3rd, the invuln time the mercs get when shocked is a god mode u ******. it may not last for more than 4 or 5 seconds, but non the less is a god mode.
4th, u just guess i dont sneak around as a spy or something?
5th, i know im a capable merc, cuase when im a merc, my server tends to have 2 people quit alot...... wonder how many of yall that is....

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[XyZspineZyX]

I'll respond to Colevant's points here:

1. I have no idea what you're going on about here, but I can tell that somewhere you're calling kingsadist stupid. Clean up your grammar and then you can talk about intelligence. I know how a person's grammar online has nothing to do with their intelligence, but until I see you type with proper grammar it's quite possible that you can't.
2. Yeah, like I can predict which of the many paths a random person on the internet will take. We aren't all psychic like you.
3. You can still get jumped on. God mode is complete invulnerability. Therefore, the invuln times after shock aren't god mode.
4. You may very well sneak around, but you support moves that take away any incentive to sneak around.
5. Maybe they quit because you let it slip who you are? Or maybe you start yelling at them for how stupid you think they are for not supporting exploits, so they quit? Maybe it's just your attitude problem that drives them away.

[Colevant]

first off, this is a letter to the mayor, so im not going to take the time to write it out proper. u can continue to say blah blah about proper grammer in these forums, but no one cares.
2nd. if u were smart, u could predict plenty of different paths, find a way to eleminate most of them, then go off that. if ur having trouble stopping a spy, u must not be a good merc.
3rd. like i said before, if u get jumped on, its ur own fualt, u werent paying attention in the first place. its good they didnt take the headjump out (king wants it out), but there werent to many ss+jumps going on in the first place. and if they did take it out, then spies would have basically only 1 way to kill, and that would be stupid also.
4th. u can sneak all u want in this game, but ur never going to be sneaky. cuase any lazer, motion detector, or ND will give u away. untill they make it stop saying where u are for doing what u need to do, a spy will need defense.
5th. im never rude in my games, cuase i want people to stay. they just quit cuase i show them how much of a pain a good merc can be. i dont let them outta their spawn, or i will camp the only way to move aorund some of the levels. they just quit becuase they dont like getting owned so fast as a spy.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[XyZspineZyX]

1. Did you mean "isn't a letter"? The point is that if you're so smart then actually type out one of your posts (1 sentence posts don't qualify) with proper grammar to prove to us that you have a decent education. Otherwise, we can assume that you can't, making you as stupid as you think everybody else is. And yeah, people care. Not about the grammar mostly, but about another opportunity to doubt your intelligence.
2. Yeah? Since when does being smart mean being able to read minds? You basically say you have to flush out every room and path that could possibly have a spy to be a good merc. Good spies don't let on where they are, and with the "flushing out" tactic a well-placed alarm snare could have me firing blindly into an empty room for a while.
3. I never said anything about SSJump being taken out or kept or anything of the like. I just said it isn't god mode, as you aren't completely invulnerable.
4. I win by sneaking around all the time. You said you do it too, did you not? The game is about being sneaky and striking from the shadows. The SSG just takes away any incentive to not barge in and kill everybody with no skill whatsoever.
5. Camping the spawn? Since when does that make you good? It just makes you another piece of propaganda in the effort to change the maps so mercs can't get to the spy spawn. As for the "the only way to move aorund some of the levels", which maps would these be? The subway level has that open area but it's a bit too big to be able to see the entire thing from one spot. I can't think of any maps that have a place where you could be a camping ***** and totally kill everybody coming through to anywhere. Warehouse? Museum? I guess the spawn in Cinema or the big area in Deftech could work, but the Cinema thing was covered in the "spawn" dealie and the area in Deftech is much too large...
Anyway, spawn-camping doesn't make you good. You sit there and make the spies wait. It gets rid of the entire "tracking" theme of the merc. *****.

[poseyjmac]

what is the point? some people dont like the patch, some people do. ok now what? anything else is just pointless arguing. i know colevant's type, he will *ALWAYS* reply if you keep egging him on. it doesnt matter if you say he contradicts himself, he will never admit to it even if its true. kinda reminds me of me

[kingsadist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colevant:
first off king, ur wrong again. do u ready anything or do u just post in random topics? read the post others have used. and u will see what they mean, if not , ur not so bright.
2nd, u can predict people by thinking what they might do, and go off that. if u dont know that either, ur not so bright.
3rd, the invuln time the mercs get when shocked is a god mode u ******. it may not last for more than 4 or 5 seconds, but non the less is a god mode.
4th, u just guess i dont sneak around as a spy or something?
5th, i know im a capable merc, cuase when im a merc, my server tends to have 2 people quit alot...... wonder how many of yall that is....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First off wrong about what? I read and understand every post; Im just asking if you do the same. You seem to think everything as a direct attack towards you.
Your second point, combined with your last one: heres a perfect example of you being a hypocrite, plus another wrongful assumption that I am not bright.
Yes, you can predict paths and close a few of them down as best you can. That had nothing to do with the players being predictable; you still dont know what they are going to do, how they are going to react to your traps, actions and the level. Therefore, its still unpredictable, but you can try and make the situation a bit more predictable. Any good spy remains unpredictable and WILL confuse you.
Thirdly: nice job proving that you do insult, flame and troll at every chance you get. As for the temporary invincibility, its not god mode; god mode is a permanent invincibility cheat - this is no cheat and its not permanent.
I never said you did not sneak around; if you do then you should see NO need for the moves you keep defending.
And seeing as Warmaster has taken the words out of my mouth for the fifth point...

No I dont want headjumping out; yet ANOTHER missassumption there pal, what a record. I want the kill out; headjumping, like 3SC or SSG, is totally undemanding and hugely rewarding, therefore cheap, and should be countered by implementing some 'god-mode' as you wrongly describe it.
If they took it out, spies would have to use adept skill, tact and cunning to get a kill; making them more satisfying, more impacful and more rewarding (this may need some merc-respawn tweaking).

So we are never going to be sneaky eh? You seem to misunderstand the meaning of sneaky then; whoever said a merc should have NO HELP as to knowing were a spy is? I consider it totally fair and challenge/tension-adding when a merc knows Im decontaminating. If you can get there without being spotted by lazers, motion detectors, cameras and the like, then you do not, as opposed to what you say, sneak.

So theres the secret to your merc 'succes': spawncamping! The closest thing to cheating that a merc can do! You seem very misguided in your description of skill; you seem to need every single cheap tactic to survive. Are you one of those people who camps outside on Musem and fires frag-nades at the spawn-point?

poseyjmac, you are so very right.
All I actually ever wanted was for that smacktard to prove he had anything below the belt and show us his supposed 'skills'; now that I know he spawncamps, Im not holding my breath, but just dismiss him as a tragic caricature of the average online dweeb.
Probably the worst slip-up he's made yet, and also the most telling...

[Xan-99]

im trying to make things fair on colevant cos other people think the way he does and he just expressing his opinion. but with every post of his i read he confesses to things that he says he doesnt do, he attacks anyone that even replies to him (here i am trying to tell everyone just to play the version they like and he attacks me for personally insultying him (oh my poor feelings)) and most of all everytime he says that hs a good merc i know he lying because he confessed to spawn camping, and thats not skill, anyone whos ever seen someone else do it can copy.
the problem with the jump now is tht it hits from too far away, i dont know how many times ive know the spy is above me and gonna jump ive moved back, seen the spy lan infrount of me...and get knocked out even though hes at least a foot away, and then i have to w8 for it to happen again.

player name: Xan-99
team m8 name: Amnesiac-23
you gotta love the tazor

[keeblerelfe]

"I want the kill out; headjumping, like 3SC or SSG, is totally undemanding and hugely rewarding, therefore cheap, and should be countered by implementing some 'god-mode' as you wrongly describe it."

I assume you mean double-jumping; A good stealthy jump takes some skill to pull off.

------------------------------
Fisher: "How did you keep [this data disk] away from them?"
Shetland: "Just wash your hands when you're done with it.

[kingsadist]

Yes, thats what I meant.
If I had no idea the spy was there, and he isnt bent on killing, its fine.

[MrBisto]

Something I'm curious about with colevant is that he says if you are having trouble taking down a spy, you must be a "sucky" merc. However, he constantly brags at how good he is as a spy and that he always wins. This would leave me to believe mercs have trouble taking him down. therefore, he only plays against "sucky" mercs.

The great, skilled, highly talented colevant is only skilled against n00bs!!! All point and laugh at colevant http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sorry.

----------------------------------------------------------

GamerTag 1: DJToot

Available in Amped 2, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, Race Driver 2, Crimson Skies, Rainbow Six 3 and PGR 2

[PoeDrake]

sorry, i just have some general questions about what you guys are saying:
what's "SS+SC", "SS + Grab", "3sc", "SS+cam"..what did they do about it in the patch, and how?

[Ruzhyo666]

SS+SC and SS+CAM and 3SC = Sticky Shocker + Sticky Cam.

This is when a spy shoots the merc with his sticky shocker and then follows it up with a sticky cam at his feet or on a wall and then quickly releases the gas. If the merc woke up in the gas in version 1.1, he would fall asleep, and there was no avoiding it. No doubt you have had it happen to you, considering almost EVERYONE did it. In version 1.2, they made it so that for about 2 seconds after you are able to move again after you have been shocked, you will be immune to the gas, giving you ample time to dash or just walk away from the gas.

SS+Grab is when the spy would shoot you with the sticky shocker, then run up to you, usually dropping a smoke right behind you, and then waits behind you for you to be able to move again so he can instantly grab you. Like the ss+cam, this was unavoidable unless you crouched, which would still get you knocked out for 10 seconds, ample time for the spy to take an ND133. In the 1.2 patch, they make it so you cannot be grabbed for 2-4 seconds after you are able to move again, just like the ss+cam.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[kingsadist]

Anyone else notice Colevant hasnt posted since his spawncamping/n00bkilling ways were exposed?
How the 'mighty' have fallen...

[Colevant]

actually i did post, and if people read the other topic about headjumping, they would all see how stupid u really are. u and warmaster want mercs beefed up even more cuase ur affraid of smokes, jumping, and spies hiding in the dark. talking about how the mercs have to cowar away from them.
thats just pathetic. if ur cowaring away from a spy, ur the sad one. maybe yall need to work at being a better merc than asking ubisoft to make it easier on you.
its sad when babies get their way, cuase then the grownups tend to not have as much fun.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Colevant]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kingsadist:
Yes, thats what I meant.
If I had no idea the spy was there, and he isnt bent on killing, its fine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


lol, king is just a little kid who doesnt wanna die as a merc. u can tell that by every post he has made. he wants the spies not able to kill at all. maybe he should work as a merc alittle more.
and xan, did u ever think about spawnkilling meaning the spies are camping in thier spawn cuase every attemp they have made has failed fast and horrible, and that they are affraid to come out. so to end it quickly, i launch a nade into the window or something. some maps require spawn camping, like warehouse. thats the only map i will spawn camp on. others i dont need to. just teamwork and all the damn gadgets a merc has is enough to win any match with ease. if ur having any trouble as a merc now, u suck.
that was the whole problem, not the skill of the spy, but the skill of the merc. half of you dont know what your doing as a merc. i know cuase you still dont in the games. its pathetic. they need to make spies put some fear back into the mercs, and have the mercs learn this game alittle better, use teamwork, and then maybe, u will see how a merc is a threat to a spy, instead of ur backwards thinking of a spy is still a threat to a merc. which a spy has never been if u were good.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Ruzhyo666]

Regardless of weather the fact they dislike aggro spies is based on their skills as merc or not (which it isn't) the fact still remains that the point of the game for spies is to use stealth to complete their objectives as much as possibile. This being so, when a situation arises, the spy should chose to use stealth as opposed to going in for a kill. With v1.1 it was not this way, it was too easy for the spy to kill and go aggressive and they would end up winning with little to no real skill input. In fact, in v1.1 as spies you could run around using as little stealth as possibile and still win if you ss+grabbed or ss+cammed every time you saw a merc. This is not the way the game was meant to be played, obviously, and you are fooling yourself into believing so since this method of play was fun for you. Like we have said to you so many times before, it is printed on the manual, box, and cd case that this game is supposed to be a new dawn of stealth action. Running around snaping necks and ss+camming with ease is not a new dawn of stealth action. Now that v1.2 is out, spies are using stealth. Even if spies are losing a bit more, the stealth is there, so v1.2 was successful. End of story kthnxbye.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[Wartank]

after installing 1.2 i cant seem to host do i have to open ports now?

[kingsadist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colevant:
actually i did post, and if people read the other topic about headjumping, they would all see how stupid u really are. u and warmaster want mercs beefed up even more cuase ur affraid of smokes, jumping, and spies hiding in the dark. talking about how the mercs have to cowar away from them.
thats just pathetic. if ur cowaring away from a spy, ur the sad one. maybe yall need to work at being a better merc than asking ubisoft to make it easier on you.
its sad when babies get their way, cuase then the grownups tend to not have as much fun.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The other topics being the ones made by people who are desperate for a kill because they are to unskilled to outmaneuvre a merc? Its frustrating enough just replying to someone like you; I dont want to have to explain the whole game and its concept again to a whole classroom full of you.
Also, good job on once again proving you are a troll, flamer and good at nothing more than insulting. Discussion is not your forté, but circling the point it.

Another missasumption/wrongfully understood post follows; I dont want mercs beefed up, I want spies beefed down into what they are described as and should be. If you want them to keep being killing-machines, get back on 1.1 and snap away!
Afraid of spies hiding in the dark? The whole topic here is that they dont hide in the dark. Another top inconsequential remark there, champ!

If I have to cower away from a spy, which I dont (*TING* and another wrongful assumption for the gentelman in the flaming-corner!), then I proved that there is something wrong with the game. If you dont understand that, you are CERTAINLY the sad one. The tragic one, even.

Sorry, I dont need to be told to be a better merc from someone who spawncamps and deliberately picks on new players just to get an advantage.

It is indeed sad when babies get their way; thank God you never will.
Read Ruzhyo666's post very carefully; he got it in one. Heck, read it twice, just get it through. And if you dont want to, well, keep playing however you want, just stop bothering the world just because you wont let others have an oppinion (quite the Stalinist, arent you?) or discuss something you dont agree with. I will agree to disagree, but you obviously wont, so another kthnxbye is all you get.

"lol, king is just a little kid who doesnt wanna die as a merc. u can tell that by every post he has made. he wants the spies not able to kill at all. maybe he should work as a merc alittle more.
and xan, did u ever think about spawnkilling meaning the spies are camping in thier spawn cuase every attemp they have made has failed fast and horrible, and that they are affraid to come out. so to end it quickly, i launch a nade into the window or something. some maps require spawn camping, like warehouse. thats the only map i will spawn camp on. others i dont need to. just teamwork and all the damn gadgets a merc has is enough to win any match with ease. if ur having any trouble as a merc now, u suck.
that was the whole problem, not the skill of the spy, but the skill of the merc. half of you dont know what your doing as a merc. i know cuase you still dont in the games. its pathetic. they need to make spies put some fear back into the mercs, and have the mercs learn this game alittle better, use teamwork, and then maybe, u will see how a merc is a threat to a spy, instead of ur backwards thinking of a spy is still a threat to a merc. which a spy has never been if u were good."

Nope, I dont want to die as a merc. Do you? Didnt think so. If you had said that I didnt LIKE to die as a merc, you would have been right. Thinking before writing can help, you know. Then, as said about five times before, I do still want the spies to be able to kill, but in a graceful, skilled and tactical way, i.e. silent neck-grab. Good job not even reading the lines, never mind whats between them!

Then, the pathetic defense of spawncamping. If you play against spies that cant think of any way to go forward except kill mercs, you are indeed only playing with n00bs, and have proven yourself a worthless player. Also, you seem to want to end every single game of merc quickly, so as to be a spy again, and make spy-games last as long as they can, meaning you are one of the infamous aggros, and totally biased towards one class.
We also never said we had trouble as mercs now; you just put words in our mouths, and made another missassumption. Two birds with one headjumping stone there!
I said headjumping is still a problem, as it still offers the moves for aggros to exist, while they should have been extinct with 1.2.

Then another bit about how half of us stink at being merc. Again; prove your skill and Ill take you seriously.
Why should a spy be any more of a threat to a merc? They have enought tools to succesfully incapacitate a merc and reach their objective, the one you were sworn to defend. Hardly visible, armed with a sackfull of confusion, KO and misleading, they are still quite the fright; fear of the unknown is the mercs biggest fear; spies are mostly totally in control of their plan, their actions and their path. Often, mercs are wandering blind for the first few minutes of game-time, if the spies use stealth.
But, its still the mercs that should be the biggest threat. If spies can just get them out of the way, like in 1.1, then all threat and incentive to stealth is lost. With 1.2, that very same incentive has mostly been restored.
Seeing as you dont seem to graps any of this, I wont even begin to tell you how ironic and moronic your remark about backward thinking is. Think it out for yourself for once; youre supposed to be the big boy here.

[lex727]

I agree on double mario jump. It's not the way it should be. you are suppose to neatrolize a merc and run to your objective. Not to stay on his head. if Ubi wanted neatralization to be a kill then double jump boudln't exist. mario jumping will probaby be addressed. The whole thing with spies that do double jumps comes to honor. (Which they lack) I've played good people and pretty much none of them did mario jumping because they thought it was too cheap. So if someone compains about it he's probaby just cheep. Yes your buddy can help you get out of mario jump but in many maps he'd be in another sector of the map and wouldn't be able to do that. So for all the cheap spies out there: Go back to 1.1 and be as cheep as you like but stop complaining just because you cannot play honorably!

&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.melkosoft.chat.ru/Unexpected.bmp&quot; width=&quot;305&quot; height=&quot;150&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; border=&quot;0&quot;&gt;
Pray it's only a nightmare!

[Xan-99]

colevant can you at least write 2 post that dont contradict each other, u say u spawn camp u denial spwaning camping, u say tht we're complainers for getting rid of ss+cam, that is was a spys only denfese, u say u never used or defended ss+ cam, u say your not an agro spy yet all u seam to do is talk about killing mercs. seriously do u have one straight thought?

player name: Xan-99
team m8 name: Amnesiac-23
you gotta love the tazor

[Colevant]

xan, when there are 2 objectives, neut or kill mercs, then what else should i talk about. neuting is the easy part, so i have nothing to say on that. yall cant seem to keep on yalls topic. without using fake rules yall have seemed to come up with. thinking spies shouldnt kill. bah. if that was how it was supposed to be, single player would have been very boring...
yall seem to forget, spies are trained! they know the mercs are guarding the nd's, so they have the equipment they need to stop them. and they should beable to take out the merc, becuase it is listed as a way to win, it would make getting to the other objective easier if the obsticle that was blocking you was removed, so why not?
yall want a game of boredom with no chance to ever die as a merc. well, the merc shouldnt and doesnt need any help. if u and ur teammate work together, and u dont suck at aiming, u can take out the spies with ease. if your having trouble at that, then u do suck.
king, you think alot of wrong things you know that.... you havnt ever played a game with me, yet you post all these ways you think i play. and then go off to try and insult me on your assumptions. spies shouldnt have to only kill in a silent way. they are trained to handle alot of situations. they should beable to take out the merc in many ways, but you 'cry baby i cant aim a gun to kill a spy' mercs dont want any fear of death. you just want the spies to alway stay away. stop basing this game only on stealth and realize that hostile situations will accur, and that the spies should have ways of defending themselves too.
i cant believe yall keep asking for proof of skill when im the one asking for this game to get more skilled other than the mercs being DOOM SOLDIERS and the spies being reduced into cowering mice. yall are the ones wanting this game to take less skill.
Not my fualt the games when im a merc are short, its the spies who keep dieing so fast. maybe if they had a way to defende themselves, it would last longer.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[XyZspineZyX]

First of all, Colevant, I still haven't seen one post in proper grammar from you. So I'm forced to assume you have no more than a high school education, or less. And yeah, you're the one that thinks the "wrong things". Spies shouldn't have to kill only in silent ways? What are you smoking? The whole point of spies is to complete the objectives stealthily. Do you not know what stealth means?

And yeah, you are the one that needs to show your skills. (King, could you find somebody with a video capture card for me? One that plays SC2 of course. We all need to see Colevant in action.) You are the one that wants the easy kills, you are the one that wants mercs to cower (I never said I cowered, moron. Get your facts straight.) in fear of the spies that you think should be able to kill easily. Colevant my friend, we are the ones that wants the game more skilled. We want the spies to have a challenge, with a little thing called 'BALANCE' that you might of heard about a while ago.

I can't believe you keep avoiding giving proof of skill when we're the ones asking for this game to get more skilled other than the spies being DOOM SOLDIERS and the mercs being reduced into cowering mice.

I played for about 4 hours last night (a record for me) with one partner throughout the games. While we were spies on neutralization we would basically rape anybody who got in the server. The mercs weren't uber-skilled, but they weren't uber-noobs. In Schermornwhatever we would send one into the water tank room, start neutralizing, then have the person in there distract any mercs that came in while the other person started on a ND133 in the train room, and go from there. It's called "tactics". If you haven't noticed by the way Ubi talk, SCPT is a FRICKING TACTICAL GAME, meaning it isn't about killing everybody that gets into your line of sight. It requires thought. That's right, actual thought instead of just a finely tuned twitch sense. This isn't the game for you. Go play Battlefield Vietnam or whatever to get your fill of killing random people. But I know you won't leave, you'll keep on 'cry baby i want to keel people snap snap the snapper hahahaha' as you usually do. You have to understand that you don't know what the game is about. It isn't about killing the mercs, no matter how funny you think the 'snap' sound is. It's about stealth, whether you choose to go into denial or not. I have to seriously doubt you saying you 'pwn' as a spy and go stealthy. If you're so good, then why do you care about SSGrab? Perhaps you thought you were good before 1.2, and you're going off of how you do with SSGrab?

And yeah, I'd have to say you got a bit of the wrong impression on the "spawn" thing. On Warehouse or something it's okay. But on something like Cinema if you crouch into the area where the spies come out, to where you could launch a nade into the spawn room from there... yeah. Then you're a *****.

[GhostRiderLSOV]

Sorry for interrupting again guys, but really where is this argument going? Even if one side gets the point across, what next? It seems to be going more to a personal vendetta or something...So many pages and I've almost lost the point. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

[TheNSB]

Blah blah blah, whine whine whine. If you guys need me, I'll be playing the game.

[drjambi]

I agree with Ghost. Everyone just agree to disagree. Simple.

[Colevant]

here is what warmaster said ....
And yeah, you are the one that needs to show your skills. (King, could you find somebody with a video capture card for me? One that plays SC2 of course. We all need to see Colevant in action.) You are the one that wants the easy kills, you are the one that wants mercs to cower (I never said I cowered, moron. Get your facts straight.
and here is another one of his post....
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Warmaster129:
As we can tell, Colevant is not the person we need judging the balance of the game. He wants it possible for people to win as spies with no skill.
Now since spies can already run around without being seen, drop from above, grab, flash, cam, and smoke. The merc is gimped into having to cower in the corner. Now you think sleep jumping is normal. God! Surprised you haven't posted about getting rid of tazers and having lights be reduced to a tiny glimmer.
Maybe Colevant should work on being a spy some more instead of calling every possible exploit normal and stealthy.

maybe warmaster should stop posting bs and get his facts straight.........
and stop flaming about people if ur going to post bs anyway.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[Colevant]

and i have posted about getting the tazer range turned down. 10 feet requires no skill and is a really cheap weapon. if u dont think that, ur a newb who needs the invuln times more than anything lol.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[XyZspineZyX]

First of all there's an edit button. Do you want a high post count or something?

And yeah, the "cower in the corner" thing was stuck in there because it wouldn't be as close to the post I was trying to mock if I hadn't stuck it in there. The part I was mocking was "the spy is already gimped into having to run all the time.". If you are the super-spy you say you are (or think you are? Perhaps you're delusional...) then you wouldn't be posting about how you think the spy is useless. I don't have to run because I don't get spotted. Is that too hard for you, mister "you-all-suxors"?

And yeah, it's more of a personal vendetta now. I know that this delusional weirdo isn't gonna get converted.

EDIT: And I have posted about getting these exploits fixed. SSGrab requires no skill and is a really cheap tactic to those with non-zero ping. If you don't think that, you're a newb that needs the exploits more than anything lol.

[TacoLaMmY]

LoL, why are you still battling with the troll? He will continually lead you around his wonderful circular logic track, spitting out random contradicting statements without even analyzing yours.
Like I said, its like trying to argue with an autistic child as to why it shouldn't bash its head against the wall. Sure it probably knows it hurts, its just too stupid to give a damn.

[kingsadist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drjambi:
I agree with Ghost. Everyone just agree to disagree. Simple.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ive offered to do that a few times, but no-one has taken it up yet.
I have already accepted the fact that I cant convince Colevant and some other people, so I wont try and longer. The net of insecurities, inconsequentialities and stupidities is just getting to tight. Its like trying to imagine a conversation with that kid from the book 'The curious incident of the dog in the nighttime': impossible.

Its still masses of fun to watch them make the same mistakes over and over again, on the boards as well as online (never thought spies could get so distracted from one single grenade).

Warmaster: Nope, I dont know any kind of video-recording card, but there is a link circulating these boards that leads to a site that has gameplay videos of the MP mode on it; there will probably be more info there.

[Sunwoo22]

kingsadist,
The site with the videos and vidcap information is sc-spyworld.com. They're pretty good for getting tactics and fleshing out the different boards. They also have a tutorial on how to make your own SC:PT videos. Hope this helps.

[Colevant]

all i present are facts. yall just spit out the random ideas, then retreat when i show that its bs, and resort to name calling and other kiddish behavior. not once have yall posted something i havnt been able to counter. so yall just end up quitting becuase u know everything u say is all about noobish gameplay. if u cant handle the spy before, u sucked. if u want invuln modes, go play single player with cheats. its not fair for a class to get invuln modes and another not. stop tryn to gimp the spys cuase u cant aim. learn to be a merc better, and the spies will fall easier. so stop the complaining that the spies are the ubers, cuase if u think that, u are the stupid one.

MP Name(PC): CCCRRAAACCKKK
Jumponyatwice
irhaxxoring

[kingsadist]

*YAWN*
Once again, if you are so sure of yourself and your facts, what harm would it do to prove them?
Go to http://www.sc-spyworld.com, read up on the video-making section, and show us the results.

[NYSF-NoAntiCmpr]

I'm not sure this is the right thread to ask this, but here goes.

I'm having trouble finding a new girlfriend. Any advice?

[Sunwoo22]

Guys,
I don't know how many threads have to turn into flamefests until the community finally gets it: Colevant is always going to bash people who like the v1.2 patch; nothing new if you've been paying attention to the forums. He's not going to reason with you, and his credibility is pretty low. Just regard his comments as trolling and get on with being a positive member of the forum community. Oh, and colevant, if you hate the patch so much, just go back to the v1.1 patch. You can reside in your world and we can have ours.

[marinex10]

Hi. Um, I don't want to read all the posts in the 10 pages, so tell me what has been going on. You know, in a summary sorta way. Sorry I'm so lazy to read. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[JERKS]

i know some of u will disagree but i think i have and idea to make the taser idea better. i think that if u choose the taser it should be linked to u r melee attack and that way u couldnt charge or hit guys, but on the other hand ud have charge and another gadget.

[guitaraffa]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NYSF-NoAntiCmpr:
I'm not sure this is the right thread to ask this, but here goes.

I'm having trouble finding a new girlfriend. Any advice?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, if you want a girlfriend, here's my idea: You gotta shoot her with your sticky shocker, and then sticky cam her, and then... oh wait, you can't do that with the patch...

I'm out of ideas.


ps: colevant. I wanna play against you sometime with one of my friends. I'm having a hard time finding good mercs to play against besides my buddies. AIM: guitaraffa

also, i still can't believe everyone is arguing about the patch. spies are twice as fun now, in my opinion. now you have to work together. no more one man armies disarming the objectives. no more button mashing.

[guitaraffa]

Oh yeah, I almost never read all these posts, but I have a simple solution to the spies getting owned by the mercs. It's called hacking handicap. You use it when the teams are not balanced. It's not rocket science. Also, you don't HAVE to use the default time. You don't HAVE to use the default lives. If you change things, then the games magically become more fair. Go figure.

[Ruzhyo666]

Lets all listen to Tacolammy and just ignore the
http://www.enel.ucalgary.ca/~camp/photos/misc/troll.jpg
as much as possible. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Let this thread die, it's not going to go anywhere. Colvent's lack of mental competence insured that.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[NYSF-NoAntiCmpr]

guitaraffa you are a voice of reason in a world gone mad (r.e. game balancing).

i salute you, sir.

however you put almost NO effort into solving my romantic problems. i have come to expect more from you.

and I become more desperate by the day. you must help. i beg you.

[kingsadist]

Guitaraffa, I was under the impression that hacking handicaps make the hacking times LONGER, not shorter, thus being a disadvantage to spies. Otherwise, great call.

NYSF-NoAntiCmpr: Go out more. If you are seriously desperate, take a sackfull of money to a popular bar, get everyone in there really drunk by buying them lots of tequilas, step up on the bar, whiskey-bottle in one hand, a canfull of whipped cream in the other, and ask who wants and orgasm. Hands will be flying up to meet your demands.
Just remember to see a doctor the day after, and check the nether regions thoroughly.

[Sunwoo22]

king,
You can set the handicap times in the negatives, all the way up to -10 seconds. It makes the game a bit more accessible for new players.

[PoeDrake]

oh. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif thanks

[Pacfst]

Wow I can't beleive the common oppinion on the boards is against Covalent.

After the patch the mercs are clearly unstoppable. My frind and I have played mabey 20 games as mercs since the patch was released against a wide variety of players and have lost exactly none.

I'm amazed you guys haven't found mercs overpowered.

[XyZspineZyX]

Mercs are a little overpowered, as I've found, but it's certainly better than it was before.
And mercs do need a bit of an advantage, otherwise there would be even more spy*****s.

BTW, you got Colevant's name wrong.

[Pacfst]

oops http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Well at least with 3sc my friend and I would lose an occasional game. I'd go back to arguing that it wasn't broken but it seems pretty poinless now.

I'm hoping new maps will even things out. I think maps play a huge part in balance in this game.

[XyZspineZyX]

Spies do need to be powered up- but 3sc is the wrong way to power them up. It takes no skill, and is virtually unavoidable once you're shocked.

And remember that I'm not here to argue that 1.2 is perfect in every way- I'm here to argue that 3sc and SSGrab needed to be taken out.

[Aksu69]

I think those Merc gogles should be fixed and should not use PB at all...

------------------------------
Splinter Cell: Pandora tomorrow MP name: Player-0-
Lambert: Welcome to Paris.
You'll have time for sightseeing later
Fisher: Thanks Lambert
------------------------------

[XyZspineZyX]

Asku, I have no idea what you're talking about.