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Dashzap
06-15-2004, 08:53 AM
Seeing as ther is no bug reporting forum or patch idea proposing forum I think it would be handy to have all the bug reports and patch ideas in one handy thread, possibly making it sticky (moderators?)...

Please don't let this thread be a flame-all-out-war...

1.TAZER
While not really a bug, the tazer is slightly "overpowered". Yes I know it's pretty darn fun to stand over somebody after a successful tazering and say something like "Need a aspirin?". And I also know you're not supposed to be near a mercenary. But frankly, it's impossible to be completely invisible, out of sight and over twenty feet to the nearest mercenary. So when the mercenry tazers you you're dead. What I mean is, it's pretty lame that you "fall asleep" or faint or what the heck the spy does because it's impossible to get away if you have been tazered. Well sometimes you meet some n00bs that thinks you're already dead and runs away, or he just stands there and looks on you and then really don't seem to care that you run away from him. What I want is that the fainting-part of the tazer should be removed, compensate with 2-5 seconds (maybe more) longer stunning period. I don't want this to go into another tazer-thread, I am just telling you my oppinion.

--->Why don't have various options in SCPT for the tazer? Where you could set the range of the tazers reach, if the spy will fall asleep after the tazering, how long the spy will be stunned and so on. So everybody will be happy...<---

2.JOINING DELAY
When staring a 4 player game sometimes just three people load and then some seconds into the game it says "[Playername] entered the game". Then you will have to return to the lobby. But often this happens 3 times or more in a row.

3.BUDDY LIST
Okay, sure. The buddylist is better than nothing but it's very limited, so to speak. If you want to play with a friend you don't have played SCPT with before you have to create a game and then he will have to join it (often the servers dosent show up) and then you can add him by going to the buddy list. Well you can see where people are and you can invite them. But what I want is that it should be something like Xfire. You know, add people by name, page people and so on.

4.MULTIPLAYER INTERFACE
The multiplayer interface is so ugly imo, sure it feels kinda "top secret" but it's kind of boring.

5.FONT
Please replace the font with something easier to read, it's just caps all over the place, caps and bigger caps.

6.PUNKBUSTER
What does Punkbuster really do for this game? I heard some people complaining about cheating even with punkbuster on. And someone said they got more lag with Punkbuster off, well, PB isn't a lag reducer, it's a cheating preventation system, isn't it?

7.GRAPHICS ISSUE
Sometimes on various maps (I don't think it matters) you'll see a smoke cloud through the wall. Say on Warehouse, there's a spy standing in the first room of the spawn point (the one you enter first wth the big rope and two glass doors). Behind the center wall is a mercenary shooting a smoke-grenade at the wall, on the other side of the wall the smoke is visible to the spy whish seems just a little bit unusual. Oh, I have a GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP8X.

8.VOICE
There should be a option to turn it totally off, just not to switch down the volume to zero, the sound uploads still occurs, am I right?

9.DEDICATED SERVER
Yup, lot's of advantages...

10.HEALTH THROUGH WALL (Malf)
I guess you are pretty much aware of that if a medical kit is on the other side of a wall you can still heal from it...

11.SORTOUT FOR LOBBYS
Personally I think that there should be lobbys like "Newbies" "Experienced" "Advanced", and of course an "Everything accepted" lobby or something. And maybe when you have reached a certatin rank you can't visit the newbie room anymore etc. These lobbys would then replace all the now existing lobby rooms (Europe - english, world, Canada - francais to name a few).
And you choose what region to play in in options. Europe, USA and Asia. Maybe this set of options would be wise to initiate when there are more players on the servers.

Oppinions?

12.GETTING STUCK IN BOXES AND FALL THROUGH FLOOR BUG (-Sc0p3-)
A bug not mentioned so far, is the bug where a player can get stuck in walls and boxes. this is such an annoying bug that needs fixing, also in Krauser Labs in the elevator shaft you can fall through the ceiling to the outside which I believe to be related to this bug.

13.SERVERS DOSENT SHOW UP IN THE GAME LIST
I guess you are pretty much aware of this bug (which I believe Ubi told will be fixed). Anyhoot, you create a game and you wait for your buddy to join, but it dosen't show up for him. Then PERHAPS if you change maps the game will be visible for him in the game list.

14.CHAT APPLET(-Sc0p3-)
A good idea I (-Sc0p3-) have been thinking about for a while now, would be a chat applet of some kind built into the game, like IRC. this has been done in games like the original UT and UT2003/4, and is such an easy way to meet up with people who want to play. it is so annoying to have to minimise the game every time i want to chat to my buddy who im goin to play, when we could both start the game, and chat there before creating a server.

15.VARIOUS STUFF(SITHDUKE)
Briaog a neck grab is insanely harder to get than someone whipping out their taser. Also you mentioned running the clock for both spies and mercs. If the timer runs out the mercs win. If the timer runs out the spies loose. Its clear that running the clock on a spy is quite the opposite of running it on a merc. By that reasoning i don't belive you can call them balanced.

I started a thread showing the animation range then later on in that thread, someone else displayed a screenshot of the ten feet range. Who considers ten feet to be close quarters? not i thats for sure.

Ideas would be to add a chat window to every lobby & the friends list. That way players can converse and clans can setup matches with MUCH greater ease.

Falling through walls, boxes and even the entire level is such a pain. It really needs fixed.

how would you guys consider mercs killing themselfes for extra gadgets? Cheating or fair-play?

16.VARIOUS STUFF 2(phpngp.gr)
bugs:
1)getting stuck in boxes :S
2)mercs faster than spies... :S

as for gameplay issues... there are quite a few... the most annoying are:

mercs killing themselves for new mines and frags :S
spies killing you with 2 stumps (they stump you once and wait and stump you again while you're defenseless)

as for the tazer thingy (which to me is equal to the grab thingy)... as the tips say "Dirent confrontation is suicidal"... that's because of the tazer imho. the game's nature should be like that, i mean, a spy shouldn't be able to do much against a merc and it would require some true skill to grab him (which should be the only way to kill a merc)... the thing is that the maps dont really help...

anyway im comfortable with the fact that i cant actually win against two very good mercs... and that is why winning as a spy (and not playing aggressively and using stupid exploits) using true stealth skills shows to me a great deal of l33t3ss

and to give you an example... mount hospital, i play along with somebody i don't know as merc against 2 clan mates. they come in, full speed(and full sound), they wack the hell out of 116 with smokes, they neutralize, immediately they stump twice the other merc and kill him (i was on the 2nd floor), they proceed to 102, wack the hell out of that place too with smokes, i come downstairs while my fellow merc was screaming over the mic(...), try to charge through the smokes into 102, i get grabbed (in the smokes), i see the one spy simple walking up the stairs while the other has me, my fellow merc spawns on the 1st floor (near the stairs, which is a mile away from 214) then i choke to death, i waited for 15 seconds in total, i get respawned in the 1st floor too, i see my fellow merc got neutralized (probably he tried to walk up the stairs......) and i see 214 getting hacked while i'm walking up the dark stairs...

Snipping through thick walls (eg again in MH from 202 to 214)... I dont know if this was fixed in 1.3.

16.VARIOUS STUFF 3(Midas_Hand)
experienced players are getting much more effective at reallizing whether or not an alarm snare is making teh sound if if its an actual spy.....

I was thinking that the alarm snare shouldnt automatically start making sounds.... the spies should have a button that when hit, it would cause the snare to emmit a sound.

as long as the button was held down, there would be random sounds emmitted but let go and the sounds stop.
-------------------------------------------
I will add more if they come to my mind.
Also, Ubisoft, if you read this, WE ALSO WANT THOSE TWO MAPS!!! So unfair if the PC users don't get them as well. Why shouldn't we?

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Tesla7zap-Nodbanner.jpg

Conflict in interest? No... I got interest in conflict.

SCPT: Tesla7zap
XFire: Tesla7zap

[This message was edited by Dashzap on Wed June 16 2004 at 02:20 AM.]

[This message was edited by Dashzap on Wed June 16 2004 at 02:27 AM.]

[This message was edited by Dashzap on Sat June 26 2004 at 05:12 AM.]

[This message was edited by Dashzap on Mon June 28 2004 at 04:51 PM.]

Dashzap
06-15-2004, 08:53 AM
Seeing as ther is no bug reporting forum or patch idea proposing forum I think it would be handy to have all the bug reports and patch ideas in one handy thread, possibly making it sticky (moderators?)...

Please don't let this thread be a flame-all-out-war...

1.TAZER
While not really a bug, the tazer is slightly "overpowered". Yes I know it's pretty darn fun to stand over somebody after a successful tazering and say something like "Need a aspirin?". And I also know you're not supposed to be near a mercenary. But frankly, it's impossible to be completely invisible, out of sight and over twenty feet to the nearest mercenary. So when the mercenry tazers you you're dead. What I mean is, it's pretty lame that you "fall asleep" or faint or what the heck the spy does because it's impossible to get away if you have been tazered. Well sometimes you meet some n00bs that thinks you're already dead and runs away, or he just stands there and looks on you and then really don't seem to care that you run away from him. What I want is that the fainting-part of the tazer should be removed, compensate with 2-5 seconds (maybe more) longer stunning period. I don't want this to go into another tazer-thread, I am just telling you my oppinion.

---&gt;Why don't have various options in SCPT for the tazer? Where you could set the range of the tazers reach, if the spy will fall asleep after the tazering, how long the spy will be stunned and so on. So everybody will be happy...&lt;---

2.JOINING DELAY
When staring a 4 player game sometimes just three people load and then some seconds into the game it says "[Playername] entered the game". Then you will have to return to the lobby. But often this happens 3 times or more in a row.

3.BUDDY LIST
Okay, sure. The buddylist is better than nothing but it's very limited, so to speak. If you want to play with a friend you don't have played SCPT with before you have to create a game and then he will have to join it (often the servers dosent show up) and then you can add him by going to the buddy list. Well you can see where people are and you can invite them. But what I want is that it should be something like Xfire. You know, add people by name, page people and so on.

4.MULTIPLAYER INTERFACE
The multiplayer interface is so ugly imo, sure it feels kinda "top secret" but it's kind of boring.

5.FONT
Please replace the font with something easier to read, it's just caps all over the place, caps and bigger caps.

6.PUNKBUSTER
What does Punkbuster really do for this game? I heard some people complaining about cheating even with punkbuster on. And someone said they got more lag with Punkbuster off, well, PB isn't a lag reducer, it's a cheating preventation system, isn't it?

7.GRAPHICS ISSUE
Sometimes on various maps (I don't think it matters) you'll see a smoke cloud through the wall. Say on Warehouse, there's a spy standing in the first room of the spawn point (the one you enter first wth the big rope and two glass doors). Behind the center wall is a mercenary shooting a smoke-grenade at the wall, on the other side of the wall the smoke is visible to the spy whish seems just a little bit unusual. Oh, I have a GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP8X.

8.VOICE
There should be a option to turn it totally off, just not to switch down the volume to zero, the sound uploads still occurs, am I right?

9.DEDICATED SERVER
Yup, lot's of advantages...

10.HEALTH THROUGH WALL (Malf)
I guess you are pretty much aware of that if a medical kit is on the other side of a wall you can still heal from it...

11.SORTOUT FOR LOBBYS
Personally I think that there should be lobbys like "Newbies" "Experienced" "Advanced", and of course an "Everything accepted" lobby or something. And maybe when you have reached a certatin rank you can't visit the newbie room anymore etc. These lobbys would then replace all the now existing lobby rooms (Europe - english, world, Canada - francais to name a few).
And you choose what region to play in in options. Europe, USA and Asia. Maybe this set of options would be wise to initiate when there are more players on the servers.

Oppinions?

12.GETTING STUCK IN BOXES AND FALL THROUGH FLOOR BUG (-Sc0p3-)
A bug not mentioned so far, is the bug where a player can get stuck in walls and boxes. this is such an annoying bug that needs fixing, also in Krauser Labs in the elevator shaft you can fall through the ceiling to the outside which I believe to be related to this bug.

13.SERVERS DOSENT SHOW UP IN THE GAME LIST
I guess you are pretty much aware of this bug (which I believe Ubi told will be fixed). Anyhoot, you create a game and you wait for your buddy to join, but it dosen't show up for him. Then PERHAPS if you change maps the game will be visible for him in the game list.

14.CHAT APPLET(-Sc0p3-)
A good idea I (-Sc0p3-) have been thinking about for a while now, would be a chat applet of some kind built into the game, like IRC. this has been done in games like the original UT and UT2003/4, and is such an easy way to meet up with people who want to play. it is so annoying to have to minimise the game every time i want to chat to my buddy who im goin to play, when we could both start the game, and chat there before creating a server.

15.VARIOUS STUFF(SITHDUKE)
Briaog a neck grab is insanely harder to get than someone whipping out their taser. Also you mentioned running the clock for both spies and mercs. If the timer runs out the mercs win. If the timer runs out the spies loose. Its clear that running the clock on a spy is quite the opposite of running it on a merc. By that reasoning i don't belive you can call them balanced.

I started a thread showing the animation range then later on in that thread, someone else displayed a screenshot of the ten feet range. Who considers ten feet to be close quarters? not i thats for sure.

Ideas would be to add a chat window to every lobby & the friends list. That way players can converse and clans can setup matches with MUCH greater ease.

Falling through walls, boxes and even the entire level is such a pain. It really needs fixed.

how would you guys consider mercs killing themselfes for extra gadgets? Cheating or fair-play?

16.VARIOUS STUFF 2(phpngp.gr)
bugs:
1)getting stuck in boxes :S
2)mercs faster than spies... :S

as for gameplay issues... there are quite a few... the most annoying are:

mercs killing themselves for new mines and frags :S
spies killing you with 2 stumps (they stump you once and wait and stump you again while you're defenseless)

as for the tazer thingy (which to me is equal to the grab thingy)... as the tips say "Dirent confrontation is suicidal"... that's because of the tazer imho. the game's nature should be like that, i mean, a spy shouldn't be able to do much against a merc and it would require some true skill to grab him (which should be the only way to kill a merc)... the thing is that the maps dont really help...

anyway im comfortable with the fact that i cant actually win against two very good mercs... and that is why winning as a spy (and not playing aggressively and using stupid exploits) using true stealth skills shows to me a great deal of l33t3ss

and to give you an example... mount hospital, i play along with somebody i don't know as merc against 2 clan mates. they come in, full speed(and full sound), they wack the hell out of 116 with smokes, they neutralize, immediately they stump twice the other merc and kill him (i was on the 2nd floor), they proceed to 102, wack the hell out of that place too with smokes, i come downstairs while my fellow merc was screaming over the mic(...), try to charge through the smokes into 102, i get grabbed (in the smokes), i see the one spy simple walking up the stairs while the other has me, my fellow merc spawns on the 1st floor (near the stairs, which is a mile away from 214) then i choke to death, i waited for 15 seconds in total, i get respawned in the 1st floor too, i see my fellow merc got neutralized (probably he tried to walk up the stairs......) and i see 214 getting hacked while i'm walking up the dark stairs...

Snipping through thick walls (eg again in MH from 202 to 214)... I dont know if this was fixed in 1.3.

16.VARIOUS STUFF 3(Midas_Hand)
experienced players are getting much more effective at reallizing whether or not an alarm snare is making teh sound if if its an actual spy.....

I was thinking that the alarm snare shouldnt automatically start making sounds.... the spies should have a button that when hit, it would cause the snare to emmit a sound.

as long as the button was held down, there would be random sounds emmitted but let go and the sounds stop.
-------------------------------------------
I will add more if they come to my mind.
Also, Ubisoft, if you read this, WE ALSO WANT THOSE TWO MAPS!!! So unfair if the PC users don't get them as well. Why shouldn't we?

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Tesla7zap-Nodbanner.jpg

Conflict in interest? No... I got interest in conflict.

SCPT: Tesla7zap
XFire: Tesla7zap

[This message was edited by Dashzap on Wed June 16 2004 at 02:20 AM.]

[This message was edited by Dashzap on Wed June 16 2004 at 02:27 AM.]

[This message was edited by Dashzap on Sat June 26 2004 at 05:12 AM.]

[This message was edited by Dashzap on Mon June 28 2004 at 04:51 PM.]

Malf
06-15-2004, 08:59 AM
None of the things you have described are bugs.

The "This session is no longer available" thing qualifies as a bug.

The ability to access health terminals through walls qualifies as a bug.

The_One34
06-15-2004, 09:01 AM
I think these are gameplay issues, not bugs. But the graphics issue you mentioned was very very true.UbI....stop treating us like this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

http://www.applepics.com/userfiles/p809_bagrad2188.gif

Dashzap
06-15-2004, 09:03 AM
Yeah I noticed they're really not bugs, that's why I changed the topic!

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Tesla7zap-Nodbanner.jpg

Conflict in interest? No... I got interest in conflict.

SCPT: Tesla7zap
XFire: Tesla7zap

BigSlim_UK
06-15-2004, 09:04 AM
completely agree with your tazor point.

If the fainting bit is removed, everyone will have to kill you as soon as they have shocked you.

Its damn annoying falling asleep waiting for the merc to shoot you, or worse plants a laser mine near you( i really really hate it when they plant a laser mine over me)

braiog
06-15-2004, 09:22 AM
You're kidding right? First of all, the tazer is short; and secondly doesn't always have a 100% hit rate. I've had plenty of spies run through my tazer, roll through it, or just so close that it goes through them.

Compare this to how debilitated a merc is when in a headlock. You can hold him for 10 seconds, have him choke and die for the animation sequence (+5 more seconds) and then wait 10 seconds for him to respawn.

During that time, 2 ND133's that are near each other could get neutralized. Now THAT is a handicap.

What they should do is provide headlocked mercs with a random seqence of keys to press (near the left hand) and if he gets it right, he breaks out of the headlock and knocks the spy backwards.

If the tazer worked 100% of the time, I could see it as a rather potent weapon.

http://www.aaronmartone.com/alt/braiog_sig_large.gif

IronLegionnaire
06-15-2004, 10:27 AM
It actually requires a little work to get mercs in a headlock now, seeing as you can't just shock/smoke/grab them anymore. A chimpanzee with half a brain can use the tazer to "pwn" spies like nobody's business.

Also, don't know what system you're playing on (Xbox?), but on PC, the tazer has a proven range of 10 feet. If you're missing with it, it's because you're a lousy shot, not because the tazer is an inaccurate weapon.

-Sc0p3-
06-15-2004, 10:28 AM
BUGS

A bug not mentioned so far, is the bug where a player can get stuck in walls and boxes. this is such an annoying bug that needs fixing, also in krauser labs in the elevator shaft you can fall through the ceiling to the outside which i believe to be related to this bug.

I agree with some points about the tazer, but it is short, the only thing that really needs to be fixed is to stop it from autoaiming, coz it is too easy to use.

EXTRAS

Things such as friends list, and dedicated server are not as immediately important or in fact bugs, but would be nice if they were added.

The friends list isnt as bad as dash makes out, but it certainly could be improved on like he said. it is better than nothing. it could be improved with the ability to enter the username of the person you want to add.

dedicated servers would be great to have, i am starting to notice how much difference there is when i play on a server in europe (close to me), and then play on say, a US server. IMO the host gets a slight advantage over the other players.

A good idea i have been thinking about for a while now, would be a chat applet of some kind built into the game, like IRC. this has been done in games like the original UT and UT2003/4, and is such an easy way to meet up with ppl who want to play. it is so annoying to have to minimise the game every time i want to chat to my buddy who im goin to play, when we could both start the game, and chat there before creating a server.

As for the GUI, it is a bit boring and ugly, but i cant see anything being done about it really. it would be good if the interface was a little more like a desktop theme like UT, easy to navigate etc. with windows and such.

braiog
06-15-2004, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IronLegionnaire:
It actually requires a little work to get mercs in a headlock now, seeing as you can't just shock/smoke/grab them anymore. A chimpanzee with half a brain can use the tazer to "pwn" spies like nobody's business.

Also, don't know what system you're playing on (Xbox?), but on PC, the tazer has a proven range of 10 feet. If you're missing with it, it's because you're a lousy shot, not because the tazer is an inaccurate weapon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's easy to see that merely by the way you talk, that you know very little of the mechanics of games. The mentality of "If it works like [A] on my machine, then it works like [A] on everyone else's" is as innacruate as it is funny.

The tazer seems to have an approximate range of 5-6 feet, and when coming in contact with a Spy who is not directly adjacent to the Merc, it does a relatively good job. However, while on the move, I have encountered the above defined oddities in the behavior of the weapon.

For example, in a game called Mechwarrior 3, during SP missions, you could fire where you see the enemy; while when you were on MP, you had to lead your shot by 3-4 lengths, depending on the the latency of the enemy. Same could apply here.

Let's not jump to that conclusion and keep the insults to ourselves, ok? There's a great saying of "It is better to be THOUGHT of as a fool, then to SPEAK and remove all doubt."

Try to think outside the box, and accept that games work differently depending on the computer hardware and connections.

http://www.aaronmartone.com/alt/braiog_sig_large.gif

Ruzhyo666
06-15-2004, 11:01 AM
I'm sorry braiog, but in this arguement, you are wrong and Iron is correct. Just because your pc is not top-of-the-line, and you cannot use the tazer as effectively as some of us can, does not mean the tazer is not a bad thing. Games are not DESIGNED around the fact that you will have lag, they are designed around exactly the opposite (which is good considering I get NO LAG EVER and I have a crappy saturated cable line).

The tazer's range is TEN FEET (thats a 1 and a 0, thats 5x2 and 6 + 4 THATS TEN). It has been proven in a giant flood that rushed these boards not too long ago consisting of thousands of screen shots and a thousand more "tazer-good or bad? vote here" threads. Not only that, but the spread is HUGE. Watch the tazer test videos on spy-world.com (I think thats the url, not sure, the one operated by goliath) and you will see that even if the tazer is aiming 3 feet to the right or left of the spy, it will still get them. This is far beyond the spread implied by the lightning animation when you shoot off the tazer (probibly 3-4 times as wide). These facts justify Iron's statement that a chimp with half a brain could pwn with a tazer, and that it can in no way be compared to putting a merc in a headlock because of the large gap in difficulty required to pull off each task.

Maybe you do have a lousy pc, or maybe you do have a bad connection and thus cannot get people with the tazer much (I don't blame, I too had a lousy computer once and I totally understand). But does that justify keeping the tazer, just because it does not effect you when it clearly lowers the "fun-level" many of us are experiencing with our games on our systems? Do you really call that fair? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

-Sc0p3-
06-15-2004, 11:13 AM
*BUMP*

the artist formally known as col2004 :P

Dashzap
06-16-2004, 03:13 AM
What were it I typed in the Tazer fixing text? Yeah, that's right... It was "I don't want this to go into another tazer-thread" and also it was in BOLD you know... So what part did you miss? I also added the text "Why don't have various options for the tazer? So everybody will be happy...", wouldn't that be very very good?

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Tesla7zap-Nodbanner.jpg

Conflict in interest? No... I got interest in conflict.

SCPT: Tesla7zap
XFire: Tesla7zap

braiog
06-16-2004, 08:26 AM
Sorry Ru, but sad to say, truth be known, that you are incorrect. My PC runs the game in a decent manner (35-50 FPS), so graphic processing is fine. But to make an assumption that FPS alone determine the behavior of a game, it's weapons, or how it plays, is ludicrous.

I also have a good bandwidth, which can afford me 7.0Mbps down and 350Kbps up. Is this to say that I should not have to lead my shots because I just assume that I have excellent lag? Of course not. The player could have a poor connection, and thus, I am not seeing them where they actually are. This is known as "lag armor". It could even be true that both players (merc and spy) have excellent latency, but the net code may either (a) not be optimized or (b) have certain issues with the hardware/software on each players computers, which can cause artifacts and other oddities such as a player seemingly going through another's tazer.

Too easy is it to just place blame and leave it at that. Pass judgement quickly like that and the only thing made evident is the lack of a broad enough scope to see the entire problem at hand.

For the same reason, it can be EASILY seen that the range of the tazer seems different. I'm sure if I tested the tazer religously on a subject that never moved, I would be more apt to believe the range of the tazer is 10 feet. But my experience to date with active enemies has me believe otherwise. Do all the math you need. But 1+1 is not always 2.

If you re-read legionnaire's post, it was nothing BUT slander. Insinuating intelligence levels like that merely shows his own; and it doesn't seem to be one that anyone would be proud of.

I've had too many people who act in the manner that they do NOT want a challenge. They want to have fun at the expense of the other player. "Hey, lets 2v1". Or "Mercs shouldn't have tazers". Whatever makes it easier for them to win. I am not like this; if there is no challenge, then there can be no fun. Dominating a game does nothing for me; but that is my opinion, to which I am entitled.

Fairness, to me, is like beauty; it is in the eye of the beholder. We each paid good money for this game and are entitled to play it in the manner which does not offend the rights of other players. To say that one way is THE way to play, or it is how things SHOULD be, doesn't not seem to support this belief.

http://www.aaronmartone.com/alt/braiog_sig_large.gif

dojomann
06-16-2004, 09:11 AM
but seriously though, i think it would balance out the game some if the spy didnt fall down after getting tazered. whenever i tazer, i just HS them right away if possible. if i cant HS them in 3 seconds they should be able to run away. this is where the smoke comes in. if i put down a smoke but still get tazered, the merc waits for the smoke to clear, then kills me. if i had the time to run away after getting tazered, i wouldnt die in cheap situations like that.

http://mercury.walagata.com/w/dojomann/sigfixed.jpg

braiog
06-16-2004, 11:06 AM
Personally I wouldn't mind if the Merc tazer only lasted 3-5 seconds, but I think the pro side of it knocking out a spy, is that it gives the Merc the ability to run the clock out with a Spy inabbilitated.

Spies can grasp a Merc, wait til he chokes to death, and by the time that Merc respawns, one has been out of the map for 22-25 seconds. The Merc Tazer allows the Spy to be down for a good 8-10 seconds, and then if they get killed right then and there, that's another 10-12 for respawn, so it sorta evens things up.

http://www.aaronmartone.com/alt/braiog_sig_large.gif

hetiwos2
06-16-2004, 01:03 PM
aah come on ppl, the tazer is part of the game!
mercs would be absolutely defenceless if it wasnt for the tazers! and about the ''falling asleep'' part, why do smokenades slow you down?!?! if i were gassed id hold my breath :S
so every side has its own ''super-weapon''. its as easy as that! (and before you start insulting me be aware that english is not my first language)

braiog
06-16-2004, 02:41 PM
To show you how UNREALISTIC the game is, a spy dropped me into a field of smokes, so I went into sniper mode and SPECIFICALLY pressed the HOLD BREATH button.

But did he hold his breath?!!? Nooooooooo. *Passes Out*

http://www.aaronmartone.com/alt/braiog_sig_large.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2004, 03:51 PM
The tazer needs to be revamped. The problem with it now is that it's a close-combat weapon. But when the spies are too close, it doesn't work.

How about this: When you are really close to the spy, the 1/2 health gets taken off and he gets knocked out. But when he's farther away, 1/2 health and a zap animation. Oh, and it needs to be able to work where you aim. Right now it auto-aims unless the spy is too close. Make it go where you aim and make it work closer. And knockout only when the spy is close.

SITHDUKE
06-16-2004, 08:11 PM
Sorry for this Daz

Briaog a neck grab is insanely harder to get than someone whipping out their taser. Also you mentioned running the clock for both spies and mercs. If the timer runs out the mercs win. If the timer runs out the spies loose. Its clear that running the clock on a spy is quite the opposite of running it on a merc. By that reasoning i don't belive you can call them balanced.

I started a thread showing the animation range then later on in that thread, someone else displayed a screenshot of the ten feet range. Who considers ten feet to be close quarters? not i thats for sure.

Ideas would be to add a chat window to every lobby & the friends list. That way players can converse and clans can setup matches with MUCH greater ease.

Falling through walls, boxes and even the entire level is such a pain. It really needs fixed.

how would you guys consider mercs killing themselfes for extra gadgets? Cheating or fair-play?

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-------------------------
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Ruzhyo666
06-16-2004, 08:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by braiog:
Sorry Ru, but sad to say, truth be known, that you are incorrect. My PC runs the game in a decent manner (35-50 FPS), so graphic processing is fine. But to make an assumption that FPS alone determine the behavior of a game, it's weapons, or how it plays, is ludicrous.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good thing I assumed nothing of the sort, nice try putting words into my mouth http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I also have a good bandwidth, which can afford me 7.0Mbps down and 350Kbps up. Is this to say that I should not have to lead my shots because I just assume that I have excellent lag? Of course not. The player could have a poor connection, and thus, I am not seeing them where they actually are. This is known as "lag armor". It could even be true that both players (merc and spy) have excellent latency, but the net code may either (a) not be optimized or (b) have certain issues with the hardware/software on each players computers, which can cause artifacts and other oddities such as a player seemingly going through another's tazer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lag Armor does not occur in this game. I have tazered people having terrible lag spikes, and then when they come back from the lag they are teleported half way across the room instantly, in the middle of the tazer animation (if he was REALLY half way across the hall, how did my taser get him?). Now I don't want to debate the possibility of this so called "lag armor" actualy happening, because from what I have seen it does not, and since it seems to be the entire basis of your arguement, the arguement being that the success of the tazer depends on the lag of the victem, a point that really has little relevence as such a situation with that much lag would be an extreme situation and thus would have no place in an discussion about rather a game is balanced or not since it is implied that we are discussing the balance of the game in a situation free of lag (unless the balancing issue has to do with lag, itself). Not to mention I never experience that much lag and I rarely whitness someone experiencing that much lag either. ALSO such situations of trying to tazer some one with such lag wouldn't matter anyways, since they aren't going to pose much of a thread if they are warping everywhere now are they? You could of just as easily killed them with a gun, thus the existence of this "lag armor" has little relevance to discussions of balancing issues.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Too easy is it to just place blame and leave it at that. Pass judgement quickly like that and the only thing made evident is the lack of a broad enough scope to see the entire problem at hand.

For the same reason, it can be EASILY seen that the range of the tazer seems different. I'm sure if I tested the tazer religously on a subject that never moved, I would be more apt to believe the range of the tazer is 10 feet. But my experience to date with active enemies has me believe otherwise. Do all the math you need. But 1+1 is not always 2.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please elaborate. When is 1+1 not always going to be 2? Is the ten foot range of the tazer going to change based on the situation? Did UBI, for some pointless reason, program this so? No, the range of the tazer is 10. In this case, 1+9, 2+8, 3+7, 4+6, and 5+5 will always equal 10. Not 6, not 5, not anything else. No further mathematical study is not really needed, as such an arguement is too vague to be taken seriously anyways.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you re-read legionnaire's post, it was nothing BUT slander. Insinuating intelligence levels like that merely shows his own; and it doesn't seem to be one that anyone would be proud of.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He was getting his point across in a rather effective way, I might add. If his post suggested upon me the level of his intelligence in any way, it would be that his intelligence is high, considering he was correct in every point he made, and that how some one chooses to get their point across (in terms of how offensive it may be) in no way suggests that persons intelligence. It could suggest they are an *******, but that does not mean they are a dumb *******. (I would like to add that his posts was not even that offensive, only mildly offensive if even that.)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I've had too many people who act in the manner that they do NOT want a challenge. They want to have fun at the expense of the other player. "Hey, lets 2v1". Or "Mercs shouldn't have tazers". Whatever makes it easier for them to win. I am not like this; if there is no challenge, then there can be no fun. Dominating a game does nothing for me; but that is my opinion, to which I am entitled.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Meh, all I was telling you was that yer info about the tazer was wrong, but you drag me into a discussion of gaming ethics. Did I question anyones gaming ethics? No, only some stats about the tazer. But hey, Ill give you my opinion anyways.

I love a challenge, I love it when my heartbeat raises in a really intense game and I really want to win. Problem is, I don't get that enough, at least not as merc. I would also like to give the newer players a chance. Reducing the tazer would not only INCREASE how challenging my games are as merc, but also decrease how challenging it is for spies, balancing it out. Because right now, I ONLY lose as spies. Especialy when I play against another team that is good. Whoever is merc, wins. If that doesn't show you there is at least a slight problem with balance, there is something wrong with you!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Fairness, to me, is like beauty; it is in the eye of the beholder. We each paid good money for this game and are entitled to play it in the manner which does not offend the rights of other players. To say that one way is THE way to play, or it is how things SHOULD be, doesn't not seem to support this belief.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well then, this game is looking VERY ugly right now.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

braiog
06-17-2004, 06:02 AM
This is just what I'm talkin about. People cannot see past their own experience with a game to even COMPREHEND that it could act entirely different on someone else's computer.

1+1 is not 2 in binary. Where you're average person can only see 1+1 as a decimal form of addition, they never thought about seeing the problem from another point of view. You have made nothing but assumptions from your experience with the game. This is fine, since one can only be expected to gain an opinion about a game depending on their experience with it.

However, as soon as you started stating that likewise should be true for me, you're not looking outside the box enough; Game's are not that simple; The solution will not always be black or white, since many shades of gray can exist between. What I'm asking for is for you not to have tunnel vision here, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen.

I continually enjoy seeing people post their opinion of a game, only to enforce their beliefs on others. "If the tazer works like THIS for me, then it HAS TO work like that for everyone else." Cut and dry. Truth is, that such a belief is just dead wrong.

If I state an opinion, to which I'm entitled, and you encroach on that opinion, I have every right in my mind to do likewise back. Disrespect me, I'll disrespect you. Just try to accept the fact that what you've seen with the game is not the say-all conclusion to the problem.

It's a lot to expect from someone; actually it's too much. 99 outta 100 people see things the exact same way you do. "My opinion is the only that matters, and rather than let people have their own, I have to convince them that they are wrong, and should start seeing things my way."

I don't know how someone could subscribe to such a belief; It's a vice on the individuality of forum members; I can imagine how fun a forum would be if everyone had the same opinions because they were forced to believe in the manner that one person told them.

http://www.aaronmartone.com/alt/braiog_sig_large.gif

Dashzap
06-17-2004, 06:31 AM
Please just add bugs and patch ideas in here. If you want to discuss the stuff you are talking about, do that in another topic.

Please share bug reports and patch ideas.

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Tesla7zap-Nodbanner.jpg

Conflict in interest? No... I got interest in conflict.

SCPT: Tesla7zap
XFire: Tesla7zap

braiog
06-17-2004, 09:24 AM
Well, back on topic; If I sat down for a 3 hour game I'm pretty sure I could encounter each major bug at least once, but aside from a patch or bug, I think general improvements can be made to the game.

The thing is, I'm 99% sure that after 1.3 patch (not out yet), Ubi is gonna call it quits on the SC:PT PC community.

I'm praying that SC3 isn't done so haphazzardly, and that they hire a professional QA contractor to go over the game pre-release. SC1 wowed me; it was such a great game; PT came outta left field on me, and because of SC1's rep, I bought it. BIG MISTAKE! Now, Ubi is 1:1 to me. I won't buy SC3 until it hits $29.99 or less.

If UBI had quality games and support like some other well known developers, I would go upwards of paying $49.99-$54.99 for a good PC game. I paid $40 for SC:PT, but to me, it's only worth $19.99. That's my BSRP (Braiuog Suggested Retail Price) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It would be nice to have a definitive Patch/Bug list, but people keep "tainting" it by adding lists of things which are game preferences or adjustments. This is moreso a feature request or modification as opposed to fixing something that isn't working right, ie, Spies being able to toss nades.

http://www.aaronmartone.com/alt/braiog_sig_large.gif

SITHDUKE
06-17-2004, 04:48 PM
No-one has noticed my suggestions. Check my post near the bottom you'll see Patch suggestions. Also whats your opinion on them?

http://sithduke.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sigsith.psd.jpg
-------------------------
"Can ve paint zem gowld? It's kinda me sing ya?"
*Beeeeeeep-Beeeeeeep*
"How About Nooooo?! You crazy dutch *******"

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And Remember...
Just your friendly Sith posting again ^_^

Ruzhyo666
06-17-2004, 05:24 PM
lol sorry Dashzap, ill go back on topic once I deal with this really quick.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by braiog:
This is just what I'm talkin about. People cannot see past their own experience with a game to even COMPREHEND that it could act entirely different on someone else's computer.

1+1 is not 2 in binary. Where you're average person can only see 1+1 as a decimal form of addition, they never thought about seeing the problem from another point of view. You have made nothing but assumptions from your experience with the game. This is fine, since one can only be expected to gain an opinion about a game depending on their experience with it.

However, as soon as you started stating that likewise should be true for me, you're not looking outside the box enough; Game's are not that simple; The solution will not always be black or white, since many shades of gray can exist between. What I'm asking for is for you not to have tunnel vision here, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen.

I continually enjoy seeing people post their opinion of a game, only to enforce their beliefs on others. "If the tazer works like THIS for me, then it HAS TO work like that for everyone else." Cut and dry. Truth is, that such a belief is just dead wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actualy, I already said that there was a possibility that maybe it would be harder for you to use the tazer if your machine was bad, or you had a bad internet connection. Beyond this, there is not much that could cause your to miss more often with a tazer, and me and everyone else to succeed 90% percent of the time. Nothing could really cause the tazer for you (in contrast to me) to really decrease in range in certain situations unless it was programmed that way, or it was a bug. If this whole "lag armor" thing is the only support for your 1+1 does not always equal 2 arguement, then what you are saying (all this stuff about me having tunnel vision because I only believe what I experience is true) is really flawed, because if I have not experienced this "lag armor," then it either a.) Doesn't exist, which of course I assumed, or b.) happens VERY RARELY, too rare in fact to be relevant to the actual arguement (I believe this is all stuff I have said before), so everything you are saying is moot, unless you have any more "theories" about why the tazer would be more difficult for you hidden up your sleeve that you have no revealed yet. Understand?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If I state an opinion, to which I'm entitled, and you encroach on that opinion, I have every right in my mind to do likewise back. Disrespect me, I'll disrespect you. Just try to accept the fact that what you've seen with the game is not the say-all conclusion to the problem.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why don't YOU just accept the fact that there aren't as many "hidden unknowns" or "variables" that could really change things as much as you imply. Sure there is a possibility that there is something up with your pc or the pc of the people you play against that would make hitting them with the tazer difficult for you, but odds point against it. Therefore, It is wrong to say I have tunnel vision, as what I merely did was examine the possibilities, and chose to believe which one was most likely true. Is that so wrong?

Also, you GREATLY contradict yourself in that you tell me not to express my opinions as what I believe to be true immediately after you do the exact same thing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It's a lot to expect from someone; actually it's too much. 99 outta 100 people see things the exact same way you do. "My opinion is the only that matters, and rather than let people have their own, I have to convince them that they are wrong, and should start seeing things my way."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whats wrong with that? If I believe you are wrong, or if, in the case of an opinion, I believe that your conclusion was achieved through an incorrect analysis of the facts relating to the conlusion, is it so wrong for me to explain to you how I came to my opinion, giving you the chance to reconsider? It's human nature to believe they are correct in everything they believe, and to believe that their beliefs matters more than any one who disagrees with their beliefs, otherwise believing would not be believing. So is it so wrong to express my opinion? You are wrong, 99 percent out of 100 people aren't like this, 100 people out of 100 people are like this, including you my unaware friend. Read what you just posted, you will realize it is no less an expression of your opinion in an attempt to change or derationalize mine than are any of my posts.

________________________________
PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

[This message was edited by Ruzhyo666 on Thu June 17 2004 at 04:48 PM.]

Ruzhyo666
06-17-2004, 05:43 PM
And yah, the fall through the box thing, the the server list bug. Those things should definately be fixed. As well as the spawn camping and spy-with grenades exploit.

braiog
06-17-2004, 06:39 PM
I've already proven that neither my computer's hardware, nor it's connection to the internet are "bad". Aside from bugs prevailent to most other players, the game runs fine.

If you don't subscribe to the "lag armor" belief, by all means, you have a right to believe that. But if you, again, don't let me subscribe to it (because it has been seen in many other games, thus the term HPB; High Ping Bastard, came about), then I have no reason to allow you your stance on that subject.

Where you start to mix reality and fiction is the fact that you believe with all your heart, that your experience with the game, is the end-all to any arguement opposing your view. It's not that this is due to stubbornness or an ego that just won't deflate, as much as it is due to your inability to accept, reason, and see outside the lowest common denominator. This, in short, is not "seeing outside the box".

The reason why I don't believe in your opinion that there aren't many "mysteries" to a game as you think I believe, is because with the evidence given (a game with a significant amount of bugs), would lead any level-headed individual to believe that if there are problems at that magnitude, surely there are more that may exist at a level that we are not as atuned to.

If you want to stay blind to that, it's your option; like I said, I live in America, and if you do as well, you're entitled to believe whatever you want.

I don't question that the process of examing evidence and hypothesizing the "facts" to obtain your generalization of the game is bad, in fact, we all do that; it's a natural series of events used in many facets of life to help us build innate defensive thinking. But it's the fact that you see your way of thinking, and ONLY that way of thinking, which leads me to say that you have "Tunnel vision".

When did I contradict myself? When have I said anything aside from "You are entitled to your opinions"? We both are; and by the looks of our discussion, you seem to want to dictate to me what my impression of the game should be. Why are you trying to give me my generalization of the game? Why aren't you allowing me to do that for myself? Being opinionated is fine, it's a God given right; But my right to throw a punch ends where your nose begins; do not encroach on my opinions, and I'll grant you the same.

If you think I'm wrong, fine, I don't care; your opinions don't matter to me. But when people stard slandering me for my beliefs, it would be nothing less than American for me to not stand up for my rights. If someone says that "Well, you must have the intellect of a chimp if you can't use the tazer easily enough", then they're going to get the same, disrespectful verbage back.

For me, you must earn my respect. I do not, by default, disrespect anyone I first meet; they must give me reason to find fault, so that I will disrespect them. Insults suffice as that fault.

You last paragraph has, by far, the most reasoning to it, where you seem to sound as if you understand that we each have our own opinions of this game; But I don't think it's human nature, per se, that causes people to believe they are always right, as much as it is ego.

I am, at most times, a humble person (as contradicting as this sounds, since a humble person would not "compliment" themselves as a "humble person"), but I break that visage when need be.

Sorry to say, but your statement of "100 out of 100" people are like this is fallacy. I am that 1 out of 100 that is not. I take things objectively, look at what facts I find present, and try my best to make and educated guess. If someone has ever proven to me, or introduced a new look on a subject, I can be swayed to change my beliefs. I do not have an ego that keeps me from accepting change, and there are others like me. When you use an absolute such as "everyone is like THIS" or "nobody is like THAT", you're almost always wrong. There's always a faction of individuality that keeps absolutes from being factual.

I don't mean to disrespect the initial post here. If you wish to continue this debate, it would be best that we private message each other. I think any further "discussion" between us on public forums would be insulting to the original topic.

http://www.aaronmartone.com/alt/braiog_sig_large.gif

Ruzhyo666
06-17-2004, 08:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by braiog:
I've already proven that neither my computer's hardware, nor it's connection to the internet are "bad". Aside from bugs prevailent to most other players, the game runs fine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, but the mere fact that I expressed the alternate possibility shows I am not completely "inside the box."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you don't subscribe to the "lag armor" belief, by all means, you have a right to believe that. But if you, again, don't let me subscribe to it (because it has been seen in many other games, thus the term HPB; High Ping Bastard, came about), then I have no reason to allow you your stance on that subject.

Where you start to mix reality and fiction is the fact that you believe with all your heart, that your experience with the game, is the end-all to any arguement opposing your view. It's not that this is due to stubbornness or an ego that just won't deflate, as much as it is due to your inability to accept, reason, and see outside the lowest common denominator. This, in short, is not "seeing outside the box".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It has nothing with my inability to accept reason, and see outside the lowest common denominator that I have my opinions and chose to express the evidence I express as a means to prove my stance in an arguement is the correct way. It is just the opposite. You see, I ALREADY went through the process of reasoning, and seeing outside the lowest common denominator to choose what I accept as true. If what I accept as true does not neccessarily take as much reasoning or intellectual insight to accept what I don't believe is true, it in NO WAY means I am not capable nor that I did not already do such things. This is a BROAD assumption and in this case is very much incorrect. The most simple and easily reached solution is not neccessarily the wrong one.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The reason why I don't believe in your opinion that there aren't many "mysteries" to a game as you think I believe, is because with the evidence given (a game with a significant amount of bugs), would lead any level-headed individual to believe that if there are problems at that magnitude, surely there are more that may exist at a level that we are not as atuned to.

If you want to stay blind to that, it's your option; like I said, I live in America, and if you do as well, you're entitled to believe whatever you want.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And sure this game has a lot of bugs, but a bug that decreases tazer range? I think not. People would not even have investigated the tazer range had they not believed it to be exceptionally long. Would a test of the tazer range with moving targets on slow connections and fast connections convince you? Probibly not, because the arguement that there may be a bug that decreases the tazer range is, as I said before, too vauge an arguement to truely ever be disputed. Convenient? Yes. But just because something cannot be easily proven wrong doesn't make it a good arguement, or even close to true, because it's easy for me to see this most likely never happens because I so very often am successful with the tazer at ten feet and am so very often tazered at ten feet. A bug where such range would decrease while moving is unlikely, as it would most likely be the same size while standing still, which again brings up the option that maybe it is lag (HPBs) that makes the tazer difficult for you to pull off, which as I stated twice before is too rare a situation to be taken into consideration as a valid support for the arguement that the tazer range is shorter then suggested when both targets are standing still. This is how I rationalize my opinion, and if you disagree it is of course my nature as it is human nature for me to say that your rationalization is incorrect. This is not because I have a large ego, if you met me in person you would surely see I am a very modest person, but it is because I am intelligent enough to know that my rationalizations are good ones, as I know what I am capable of, and can observe what you are capable of by observing your rationalizations unless what your believe is not an outcome of any rationalization in any way but instead an arguement whose sole purpose is to support your side of the arguement weather you believe it or not (which I am starting to lead toward, as of now).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't question that the process of examing evidence and hypothesizing the "facts" to obtain your generalization of the game is bad, in fact, we all do that; it's a natural series of events used in many facets of life to help us build innate defensive thinking. But it's the fact that you see your way of thinking, and ONLY that way of thinking, which leads me to say that you have "Tunnel vision".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is not entirely so. Sure I have only one mind with only one way of thinking, but simple interaction with other human beings with other minds is enough to show you people think differently. Thats enough for me make assumptions of what you may being thinking and how you may be thinking based off of what you say to see your side of the arguement, and of course to more easily counter it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When did I contradict myself? When have I said anything aside from "You are entitled to your opinions"? We both are; and by the looks of our discussion, you seem to want to dictate to me what my impression of the game should be. Why are you trying to give me my generalization of the game? Why aren't you allowing me to do that for myself? Being opinionated is fine, it's a God given right; But my right to throw a punch ends where your nose begins; do not encroach on my opinions, and I'll grant you the same.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did nothing more then express my opinion of both the game (in terms of balance) and of your opinions. This, of course, can be easily interpreted as me trying to change your opinion into mine (which I admit, is). But you telling me your opinion and expressing the flaws in mine is doing the exact same thing. Showing me your opinion, alone, is you trying to force your opinion on me because the entire process of trying to force your opinion on someone is nothing more than a expressing it, being it in a form that says "I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG HERE IS WHY" or in the form "This is my opinion, respect it or not I will respect yours" It's like raping a woman and saying "I respect your body. Now here is mine, and I hope you can respect it too." True or not, it's still rape, just a much more polite way of preforming it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you think I'm wrong, fine, I don't care; your opinions don't matter to me. But when people stard slandering me for my beliefs, it would be nothing less than American for me to not stand up for my rights. If someone says that "Well, you must have the intellect of a chimp if you can't use the tazer easily enough", then they're going to get the same, disrespectful verbage back.

For me, you must earn my respect. I do not, by default, disrespect anyone I first meet; they must give me reason to find fault, so that I will disrespect them. Insults suffice as that fault.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I commend you for these things, but being offensive doesn't mean you are incorrect.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You last paragraph has, by far, the most reasoning to it, where you seem to sound as if you understand that we each have our own opinions of this game; But I don't think it's human nature, per se, that causes people to believe they are always right, as much as it is ego.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It really has nothing to do with ego. If you came to that opinion, then you by default believe it to be the best opinion out of all other possible opinions.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I am, at most times, a humble person (as contradicting as this sounds, since a humble person would not "compliment" themselves as a "humble person"), but I break that visage when need be.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you are a humble person, and one of my objectives in the last post and this one was to eradicate all implications that it had anything relevance with the aspects of expression of ones opinion that I discussed, so I am very willing to believe you are a humble person.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sorry to say, but your statement of "100 out of 100" people are like this is fallacy. I am that 1 out of 100 that is not. I take things objectively, look at what facts I find present, and try my best to make and educated guess. If someone has ever proven to me, or introduced a new look on a subject, I can be swayed to change my beliefs. I do not have an ego that keeps me from accepting change, and there are others like me. When you use an absolute such as "everyone is like THIS" or "nobody is like THAT", you're almost always wrong. There's always a faction of individuality that keeps absolutes from being factual.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My statement that 100 percent of people believe "My opinion is the only that matters, and rather than let people have their own, I have to convince them that they are wrong, and should start seeing things my way." is entirely true, just not on such the negative scale that you implied. This is a correct absolute by definition. It would be like me saying "99 out of 100 people want their desires." A desire by definition is wanted, so it can only be 100 out of 100 people, just like an opinion by definition is believed to be better than all other opinions by the person who has that opinion. Of course if a person believes their opinion to be true, which occurs by default, they will go through a process every time they are presented with new looks on new subjects on the opinion where they use their former analysis to defend it. An opinion that was achieved through incorrect or imcomplete analysis would really be an outlier anyways. For example, lets say I think Garnola bars suck, but then later it is proven to me that they increase your sexual stamina by 10 times. I would form a new analysis, most likely that outcome being that Garnola bars are the greatest thing in the world, and then the orginal statement (the one you believe 99 out of 100 people believe) would still stand true. Opinions can change, but they are always regarded as "the only one that matters" by the person that believes it.

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PC Name: ES.Ruzhyo666(mostly)/Ruzhyo666(sometimes)
Xfire Name: Ruzhyo666
AIM Name Ruzhyo2666

braiog
06-18-2004, 05:53 AM
Ru - I'm not going to continue this publically and keep disrespecting the original poster. Please continue this banter on a private thread, like previously requested, and have some respect for the thread topic. Thanks.

http://www.aaronmartone.com/alt/braiog_sig_large.gif

Dashzap
06-26-2004, 06:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SITHDUKE:
No-one has noticed my suggestions. Check my post near the bottom you'll see Patch suggestions. Also whats your opinion on them?

http://sithduke.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sigsith.psd.jpg
-------------------------
"Can ve paint zem gowld? It's kinda me sing ya?"
*Beeeeeeep-Beeeeeeep*
"How About Nooooo?! You crazy dutch *******"

My all time favourite qoute http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And Remember...
Just your friendly Sith posting again ^_^<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I assumed you also was discussing about the tazer so I didn't read it. But since 1.3 is out (I don't know if it fixed any of the bugs or added the patch ideas listed in 1.3) I dont think it will be appropriate now... We need to bump this thread...

EDIT:
Oh it's already bumped http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Tesla7zap-Nodbanner.jpg

Conflict in interest? No... I got interest in conflict.

SCPT: Tesla7zap
XFire: Tesla7zap

phpngp.gr
06-28-2004, 07:46 AM
bugs:
1)getting stuck in boxes :S
2)mercs faster than spies... :S

as for gameplay issues... there are quite a few... the most annoying are:

mercs killing themselves for new mines and frags :S
spies killing you with 2 stumps (they stump you once and wait and stump you again while you're defenseless)

as for the tazer thingy (which to me is equal to the grab thingy)... as the tips say "Dirent confrontation is suicidal"... that's because of the tazer imho. the game's nature should be like that, i mean, a spy shouldn't be able to do much against a merc and it would require some true skill to grab him (which should be the only way to kill a merc)... the thing is that the maps dont really help...

anyway im comfortable with the fact that i cant actually win against two very good mercs... and that is why winning as a spy (and not playing aggressively and using stupid exploits) using true stealth skills shows to me a great deal of l33t3ss http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and to give you an example... mount hospital, i play along with somebody i don't know as merc against 2 clan mates. they come in, full speed(and full sound), they wack the hell out of 116 with smokes, they neutralize, immediately they stump twice the other merc and kill him (i was on the 2nd floor), they proceed to 102, wack the hell out of that place too with smokes, i come downstairs while my fellow merc was screaming over the mic(...), try to charge through the smokes into 102, i get grabbed (in the smokes), i see the one spy simple walking up the stairs while the other has me, my fellow merc spawns on the 1st floor (near the stairs, which is a mile away from 214) then i choke to death, i waited for 15 seconds in total, i get respawned in the 1st floor too, i see my fellow merc got neutralized (probably he tried to walk up the stairs......) and i see 214 getting hacked while i'm walking up the dark stairs...

Total match time 3:06. That's what I call stealth action.&lt;/sarcasm&gt;

phpngp.gr
06-28-2004, 07:52 AM
One more bug:

Snipping through thick walls (eg again in MH from 202 to 214)... I dont know if this was fixed in 1.3.

Midas_Hand
06-28-2004, 09:40 AM
I have a suggestion.....

experienced players are getting much more effective at reallizing whether or not an alarm snare is making teh sound if if its an actual spy.....

I was thinking that the alarm snare shouldnt automatically start making sounds.... the spies should have a button that when hit, it would cause the snare to emmit a sound.

as long as the button was held down, there would be random sounds emmitted but let go and the sounds stop.

==========================
AMD Athlon XP 1600+, 512MB Crucial DDR266, PowerColor Radeon 9600PRO 128MB DDR, Creative SoundBlaster Audigy Gamer, Dual Maxtor 40GB HDD's

Built it myself and it runs like a dream! (looking to upgrade my CPU though.)
http://kingdomconservatory.org/mysig4.jpg

Salden
06-28-2004, 12:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phpngp.gr:

and to give you an example... mount hospital, i play along with somebody i don't know as merc against 2 clan mates. they come in, full speed(and full sound), they wack the hell out of 116 with smokes, they neutralize, immediately they stump twice the other merc and kill him (i was on the 2nd floor), they proceed to 102, wack the hell out of that place too with smokes, i come downstairs while my fellow merc was screaming over the mic(...), try to charge through the smokes into 102, i get grabbed (in the smokes), i see the one spy simple walking up the stairs while the other has me, my fellow merc spawns on the 1st floor (near the stairs, which is a mile away from 214) then i choke to death, i waited for 15 seconds in total, i get respawned in the 1st floor too, i see my fellow merc got neutralized (probably he tried to walk up the stairs......) and i see 214 getting hacked while i'm walking up the dark stairs...

Total match time 3:06. That's what I call stealth action.&lt;/sarcasm&gt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like you got owned... dont play with a stranger against a team. Or learn how to combat with your tazer and frags better.